Re: Vani, Temples, Sanga and Naama Bhajana

Nityaananda! Gauraanga! Hare Krishna! We are not disputing the necessity of a living Guru. We are discussing about the Vani and Vapu association with a living Guru and living Vaishnavas. Shrila Swami Prabhupada states in Shrimad Bhagavatam that simply reading the books of our Acharyas is also inquiring. Have we not found that so many of our questions get automatically answered when we are reading, viewing a video or hearing an audio about the Lord? That is the power of associating with Vani. I remember when I read Shri Chaitanya Charitamrita many times in my University Library, I felt deep within that I had received the answers to all my questions in life.

Daaso'smi, BR Sadhu Swami Gaurangapada.

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Re: Vani, Temples, Sanga and Naama Bhajana

Respected Swamiji, and all Vaisnavas

Surely we need a living Guru. A book , audio, or video cannot answer our questions

lowerthanarat

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Re: Vani, Temples, Sanga and Naama Bhajana

Respected Swamiji, Hadai prabhu and all Vaisnavas,

       Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krishna! Please accept my respectful obeisances!

       Whenever we discuss the importance of one type of spiritual variety, another type catches our attention and seems so glorious. The fact is that each has its own glory. Whether it is vani, vapu or in the 'inner temple', spiritual association in the heart, everything has its own glory and on the absolute level they are not different.

        But according to our own individual time, place and circumstances we find one type of association more helpful for us than another. Ultimately the fact that it is spiritual association is all that ultimately matters. Somehow we get it. The more of it we get, and the more ways we get it, the better.

        I consider associating with the Lord and worshipping him and his devotees by making a nice temple in one's mind or the heart and therby getting the association to be just as powerful as associating with them personally. Its there in the mind or the heart that one can worship them and enjoy their association unbridled and unrestricted by so many limitations of circumstances in this material world. Actually this is one of the 64 processes of bhakti and the Srimad Bhagavatam has a full chapter dedicated to worshipping the Lord in different ways. Its very rare to see as only great devotees were doing this kind of service as mentioned in Caitanya Caritamrta Caitanya Bhagavata.

       I personally been inspired to do that (though it started out very formally) with the Lordships Nityananda and Gauranga and our acaryas and I find its spiritual results to be astonishing. Serving the Lord and chanting his holy name is the best way to keep that huge speculative nature of the mind active in the service of the Lord and it makes our devotion more and more complete. The mind never stops working, and it is a very powerful thing to be used in the Lord's service in a myriad of ways.

      But I do personally agree with Hadai Prabhu that we (I am referring to myself and others like me), we are very expert in the knowledge department of spritual science, but when it comes to actually doing bhakti, we aren't that good, actually not that good at all. We know a lot more theory, with hardly much realisation. But on the practical front there are so many irregularities and that department is quite haphazard. Continuous practice is the only way to bring that department to shape. I cannot and did not learn how to play a violin just from a book. Morever theory is highly limited. The realised part of the knowledge is much superior to the external meaning. Sometimes I have to remind myself that I am not reading an encyclopedia to win a quiz competition, but its all for putting into practice and making it one's life.

       We new-comers therefore do need to start doing rather than just keep discussing. We have stalwart examples of devotees, many of them yourselves, to follow. I would rather say a simplistic and honest approach (If I have to do, I do, that's all) approach is the best thing to those who tend to follow a knowledge based approach to the path of bhakti. Atleast this is my experience. It elimates that number one enemy called mental speculation and mundane logic.

      Actually this putting knowledge to practice is sometimes a feat in itself because knowledge can be a very powerful and very subtle booster to the ego without anyone noticing. The difficulty in putting things into practice is only imaginary, but the problem is the ego likes to speculate and to practice means to surrender that ego down and tolerate that mental agitation (manaso vegam). That's the point, surrendering the ego is the big thing. Our ego likes to sit lazy or do other things, but we must override that ego by beating the mind repeatedly saying that our goal is to act in devotional service, not speculate or do something else. I have had so much bad experience in this matter. Mundane emotion driven practice is very unstable and goes up and down with no consistency or discipline. So its time to call in the military discipline to make things regular. Atleast in my case. In the army its first obey, no room for moods and their fluctuations.

      So to sum up, the whole gist of practice is this, "I have to do it, here's my chance, so let me do it. No first or second thoughts. Nityananda Nityananda ..... Gauranga Gauranga... Hare Krishna... !". That's all. No more consideration. The matter's finished. We act. Instant decision implementation.

       In our music we know what is called asura sadhaka. The earlier musicians used to put in 7-10 hours daily every single day for several years for that. Music became life 24 hours. Atleast 3-4 hours practice they put in these days. They never skip practice. Even if they are too busy in the day, they practice at night, skipping their sleep till late hours. Do we skip our eating or sleeping? That sort of will power is required and that sort of asura sadhaka with that much determination is needed. That's discipline. Let's be inspired by Dhruva Maharaja's example.

        Devotees like yourself are always encouraging us and reminding us that once the spiritual bliss starts flowing, its no longer military. Its bliss!  So then we cannot feel like stopping our bhakti. I am hoping to reach that stage where devotion can become as natural as one's breathing or more, without having to be enforced rigorously.

Learning to stabilise and properly discipline my bhakti sadhana,

Srinath

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Re: Vani, Temples, Sanga and Naama Bhajana

Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krishna!

Dear Guruji, Jagannatha Gauranga dasa, Bhakta Igor, Bhakta Srinath and devotees. Please accept my humble obeisances.

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. I think the foremost temple we have to built, maintain, and invite devotees to, is within our hearts. Our inner temple can be made unlimitedly beautiful and clean and it can be built with so much love that, when invited, Lord Nityananda, Lord Gauranga and Sri Sri Radha Krishna will come and occupy our hearts. They will sanctify your inner temple with so much transcendental attraction that it is the only place where you want to be. From this inner temple all you can see is eternal bliss in and around you. Your guru, the acaryas, and all the pure devotees of all the worlds will gather and come within your heart and join the eternal party of Lord Gauranga Krishna. In that inner sanctuary of the core of your being you will be given so much transcendental service at the feet of the pure devotees of the Lord as you could never have imagined possible. Or is it that your pure heart has joined the eternal party of Lord Gauranga Krishna? At this point it doesn�t matter anymore because all of your being is constantly drowning in that supreme love for Lord Gauranga Krishna.

After having established your inner temple to the degree as described above it is all up to Lord Nityananda where your life is heading too. The only thing you pray for is to stay engaged in which we are engaged already: that you may continue to serve the devotees of Lord Gauranga Krishna. Because sometimes you may fly high on the forceful waves of concentrated bliss, but you should never forget that you are extremely vulnerable. You should never assume that your Bhakti creeper has become indestructible, not as long as you remain within this material word. The dangers are luring everywhere around and it is absolute not certain that you may not fall. I totally agree with guruji that just one pretentious devotee with ulterior motives can disturb the whole atmosphere. However we also have to conclude that that atmosphere was then not strong enough to neutralize the ulterior motives of that devotee. No impurity can actually enter within the Sanga ultimately headed by Lord Gauranga Krishna neither in Vapu nor in Virtual association.

It seems that we all are better in the science of devotional service that in the art of living it. Yes it is a great challenge to live with devotees together and make it all work and I respect those who try it tremendously. The advantage is that they all chant (or have at least once chanted) the supreme holy Name of Lord Nityananda and should be considered pure devotees of Lord Gauranga Krishna. The only alternative is that we make our living together with materialistic people.

There is so much advantage in living as a group. Together we have so much more time for chanting and devotional service. When we share the devotional duties as keeping the cows, growing the vegetables, cooking for the Lord, taking care of the deities and attracting income for the group, the work for every individual becomes lighter. There are also other advantages. In a group, children have many fathers and mothers and when the natural mother or father dies the children have still all the other moms and dads. They are not ending up with somebody they hardly know and they stay in the trustworthy environment they know. The nowadays individualization of our society has put a tremendous strain on tiny families. Everybody has to work eight to ten hours just to maintain their house, car, electricity bill, and daily needs. Most people have no time for this and that, everything goes in a hurry, instant meals are thrown into the microwave, and nobody within the family has time to associate appropriately with each other. When you live in a group of people, as a �tribe�, all those tasks are divided over many people who lessen the �burden� of making the livelihood of every individual involved.

There is another advantage of being together physically and that is sankirtana, the foremost instruction of Lord Gauranga Krishna in this Kali yuga. When we congressionally sing the holy Names of the Lord the most pervasive phenomena in the universe is unleashed: synchronicity. When you have two pendulums moving within one room, regardless of there initial state they will adopt the same rhythm. Synchronization occurs when coupling signals are influential enough to overcome the initial vibration of individual frequencies. Below a certain threshold individualization prevails, above it there is a collective rhythm. In modern day this is a whole new science that has emerged but Lord Gauranga Krishna is the originator of this phenomenon and his incarnation as Lord Gauranga is to utilize this in the form of his sankirtana movement. Being collectively together singing His holy Names is the foremost instruction and naturally includes all other instructions because it gives participants and bystanders the collective synchronicity of Himself.

I personally love to associate with all devotees that naturally appear on my devotional path. Sometimes I encounter so called devotees with all the ulterior motives as described by guruji and initially I only look and try to activate the best in them. However as soon as I detect it is a danger for my own bhajana I part with the association. My inner question always is: does this association bring me closer to Lord Gauranga Krishna or further away from Lord Gauranga Krishna? Coming back to the inner temple as described above almost everybody fits within my heart especially when I get them to chant Lord Nityananda�s Names even just once. Because according to the promise of Lord Gauranga Krishna he or she will be His pure devotee. I just try to humble myself so deeply that I become lower then them so I can take them on my shoulders and carry them to the Lord. The Lord has given here the perfect formula for being undefeatable. So if it is necessary that a group chooses a leader, a temple president as you will, it should be the humblest of the devotees because he or she can not be brought down and will bring all others without fail to the lotus feet of the Lord.

I am very grateful for being able to share some of my initial feelings about this subject with the assembly of the wonderful devotees of this forum.

Your servant,

Hadai Nityananda dasa

Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krishna!

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Divine vani more merciful in descending to conditioned souls

Respected Swamiji and all Vaisnavas,

    Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krishna! All glories to the guru parampara! Please accept my respectful obeisances!

     This is a reply to the earlier post. I have specifically replied to the vani part of it, so I post it separately.

    Even if great devotees like any of our acaryas goes nowhere, still their words will spread all over the universe, what to speak of this little earth planet. This article will have certainly explained all our present postions. Like here I am in a corner of the world with the nearest Vaisnava (who is revealed) being Lord Siva in his temple over here! In some cases, like with Hadai Prabhu, I am nearly 12000 miles away. But the message of The Lord is spiritual and is not bound by material space and time. Not only me, almost all of you I presume. All have got the mercy through vani. Like vapuh is very rare, but vani is much more merciful and accessible.

    My whole process of spiritual advancement has (so far) been solely due to Vani. Starting from the books to contact with all of you. All of you have helped me in ways beyond comprehension that is too incredible in my vocabulary to describe. Although I have never personally seen any of you in Vapuh. These days modern day technology has grown so much that most often we don't even notice that we are sometimes separated by almost half-a-planet in cases. Now a days we can even see each other sitting where we are!

      So many of you devotees have been given diksha without vapuh, physical presence, but instead in the form of vani. Did it really matter how far away you were? I doubt anyone even bothered to notice. The effect is unchanged. The spiritual potency is all powerful and not different from the Lord. Really sometimes vapuh and vani are not different in their potency but at the same time they are different as I'll write later.

     All this modern day technology has been inspired only to spread the divine vani of the holy names and the words of the Lord and his devotees very quickly.

      Dear Vaisnavas, these days I get many insights or realisations (I am not sure, basically they just keep coming) while writing that sometimes I am unable to stop writing short and concise replies or sticking to one topic. Sometimes its as though an entire book flashes by while thinking of one paragraph or one topic. Miles and miles of non-stop trains of words are going through and everything is so significant one doesn't want to miss penning down anything. So please forgive me, I know I am just a fool and my words are very incoherent and may be totally meaningless or even completely mistaken.

       While saying I get realisations I could be completely wrong and I could just be speculating. Only you can point those matters to souls like me owing to the fact you know what is the truth, having had such beautiful realisations. Please forgive me for any inconvenience I put to you if it takes more of your time and energy to go through these long drawn notes.

    Only one thing in vapuh is that if the disciple keeps committing mistakes, the guru can 'pull him up by his ear'. But even that doesn't always seem to be a disadvantage with all the technology around as the chanting process is very simple, all that is required for a person is to be sincere and simple -- the mantrarajas are of a different character. Their effect is very quick. It only requires a person to so much as think or even hear or mentally note the name 'Nityananda' or 'Gauranga' even once and the Lord immediately decides to take direction over his life. The way they spread is very very subtle to notice, but it is exponential. The more people get the message, the more the names will spread to ever more people. Sooner or later I am sure that there will be perhaps a massive explosion of bhakti on this planet if things keep going as they are.

      The revelation of the mantrarajas and the maha mantra is heading for a tidal wave of spiritual revolution all over the world. And its all being done predominantly by vani. Though vapuh is catching up, the vani is the bedrock, that set everything including the vapuh into motion. Vani will go where vapuh doesn't always go. And it stays here permanently whereas vapuh is only rarely available. This preaching movement of Mahaprabhu is one of the finest example of vani and its forever showing more and more of its power until we only become stunned and astonished by its unfathomable power.

     That saying, if one looks at vapuh after this, one sees the glory of that type of association and it has its own glory as well. But its like these two types of association are forever competing with each other and make each other more glorious. On the absolute level, vani and vapuh are non-different, but in terms of availability to the conditioned souls, vani is more significant and merciful. Just like the mantrarajas are more merciful on us fallen souls than the Hare Krishna maha mantra, though on the highest spiritual level, they are non-different. 

      At the absolute level, they are both association and so they are not different, but when they descend to the material world, vani is merciful and goes on working whether with vapuh or without vapuh. Even if I may have missed the Lord and His associates in vapuh by just 500 years (the hair's breadth when you see that they descend once in 8.4 billion years), I still have their association with vani always. Vani is always merciful too one and all and at all times whether we get vapuh or do not get vapuh. The spiritual potency is unchanged That's acintya-bheda-abhedha. The spritual association has so many varigated features like this.

       Sometimes I like one type of association, then the other. But then again vani, as with the mantrarajas Nityananda and Gauranga always has a special place for its quality of mercy and its ability to reveal its all pervading power. Vani in the books was my first association, that vani was my first guru. That vani brought me to you and now I am being guided by your vani in aural and written form. Vani is always the bedrock foundation under all the edifice of devotion that is being built slowly by your mercy. It is the support of not only mine, but so many devotees all over the world. In the past, present or future, the vani will always have its own glory.

       All that makes me feel very eager to one day get your association in the form of vapuh as well. That has its own charm and for the materialistic souls, it is the chance for close and personal association with the pure devotees. It has its own glory and its own charm. If you and the Lordshops, Nityananada- Gauranga and Radha Krishna are very merciful upon this worthless soul, I will be fortunate enough to get that association as well

Very insipired with insights and realisations from your vani,

Daaso'smi,

Srinath

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krishna!

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Re: Vani, Temples, Sanga and Naama Bhajana

Respected Swamiji and all Vaisnavas,

    Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krishna! All glories to the guru parampara! Please accept my respectful obeisances!

     This is a reply to the earlier post. I have specifically replied to the vani part of it, so I post it separately.

    Even if great devotees like any of our acaryas goes nowhere, still their words will spread all over the universe, what to speak of this little earth planet. This article will have certainly explained all our present postions. Like here I am in a corner of the world with the nearest Vaisnava (who is revealed) being Lord Siva in his temple over here! In some cases, like with Hadai Prabhu, I am nearly 12000 miles away. But the message of The Lord is spiritual and is not bound by material space and time. Not only me, almost all of you I presume. All have got the mercy through vani. Like vapuh is very rare, but vani is much more merciful and accessible.

    My whole process of spiritual advancement has (so far) been solely due to Vani. Starting from the books to contact with all of you. All of you have helped me in ways beyond comprehension that is too incredible in my vocabulary to describe. Although I have never personally seen any of you in Vapuh. These days modern day technology has grown so much that most often we don't even notice that we are sometimes separated by almost half-a-planet in cases. Now a days we can even see each other sitting where we are!

      So many of you devotees have been given diksha without vapuh, physical presence, but instead in the form of vani. Did it really matter how far away you were? I doubt anyone even bothered to notice. The effect is unchanged. The spiritual potency is all powerful and not different from the Lord. Really sometimes vapuh and vani are not different in their potency but at the same time they are different as I'll write later.

     All this modern day technology has been inspired only to spread the divine vani of the holy names and the words of the Lord and his devotees very quickly.

      Dear Vaisnavas, these days I get many insights or realisations (I am not sure, basically they just keep coming) while writing that sometimes I am unable to stop writing short and concise replies or sticking to one topic. Sometimes its as though an entire book flashes by while thinking of one paragraph or one topic. Miles and miles of non-stop trains of words are going through and everything is so significant one doesn't want to miss penning down anything. So please forgive me, I know I am just a fool and my words are very incoherent and may be totally meaningless or even completely mistaken.

       While saying I get realisations I could be completely wrong and I could just be speculating. Only you can point those matters to souls like me owing to the fact you know what is the truth, having had such beautiful realisations. Please forgive me for any inconvenience I put to you if it takes more of your time and energy to go through these long drawn notes.

    Only one thing in vapuh is that if the disciple keeps committing mistakes, the guru can 'pull him up by his ear'. But even that doesn't always seem to be a disadvantage with all the technology around as the chanting process is very simple, all that is required for a person is to be sincere and simple -- the mantrarajas are of a different character. Their effect is very quick. It only requires a person to so much as think or even hear or mentally note the name 'Nityananda' or 'Gauranga' even once and the Lord immediately decides to take direction over his life. The way they spread is very very subtle to notice, but it is exponential. The more people get the message, the more the names will spread to ever more people. Sooner or later I am sure that there will be perhaps a massive explosion of bhakti on this planet if things keep going as they are.

      The revelation of the mantrarajas and the maha mantra is heading for a tidal wave of spiritual revolution all over the world. And its all being done predominantly by vani. Though vapuh is catching up, the vani is the bedrock, that set everything including the vapuh into motion. Vani will go where vapuh doesn't always go. And it stays here permanently whereas vapuh is only rarely available. This preaching movement of Mahaprabhu is one of the finest example of vani and its forever showing more and more of its power until we only become stunned and astonished by its unfathomable power.

     That saying, if one looks at vapuh after this, one sees the glory of that type of association and it has its own glory as well. But its like these two types of association are forever competing with each other and make each other more glorious. On the absolute level, vani and vapuh are non-different, but in terms of availability to the conditioned souls, vani is more significant and merciful. Just like the mantrarajas are more merciful on us fallen souls than the Hare Krishna maha mantra, though on the highest spiritual level, they are non-different.

      At the absolute level, they are both association and so they are not different, but when they descend to the material world, vani is merciful and goes on working whether with vapuh or without vapuh. Even if I may have missed the Lord and His associates in vapuh by just 500 years (the hair's breadth when you see that they descend once in 8.4 billion years), I still have their association with vani always. Vani is always merciful too one and all and at all times whether we get vapuh or do not get vapuh. The spiritual potency is unchanged That's acintya-bheda-abhedha. The spritual association has so many varigated features like this.

       Sometimes I like one type of association, then the other. But then again vani, as with the mantrarajas Nityananda and Gauranga always has a special place for its quality of mercy and its ability to reveal its all pervading power. Vani in the books was my first association, that vani was my first guru. That vani brought me to you and now I am being guided by your vani in aural and written form. Vani is always the bedrock foundation under all the edifice of devotion that is being built slowly by your mercy. It is the support of not only mine, but so many devotees all over the world. In the past, present or future, the vani will always have its own glory.

       All that makes me feel very eager to one day get your association in the form of vapuh as well. That has its own charm and for the materialistic souls, it is the chance for close and personal association with the pure devotees. It has its own glory and its own charm. If you and the Lordshops, Nityananada- Gauranga and Radha Krishna are very merciful upon this worthless soul, I will be fortunate enough to get that association as well

Very insipired with insights and realisations from your vani,

Daaso'smi,

Srinath

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krishna!

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Re: Vani, Temples, Sanga and Naama Bhajana

Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krsna

Thank you so much for this post. I want to say that Vani of Acharyas is most important. That is my small realisation. In 1989 I found Srimad Bhagavatam in local library and started to read, Canto after Canto. I started to chant Hare Krsna and study Bhagavatam, and only after year and half I found some devotees in Belgrade. That is influence of pure devotees, that jivas are starting to chant and make spiritual progress evan they never personally associate with devotees.So from my small experiance, I agree that Vani is most important.

This site is most powerfull form of Vani. I also started to chant Nityananda and Gauranga Mantrarajas, evan I am thousands miles awey from Swami Gaurangapada. Here we have so many nice bhakti katha and so many nice, sincere devotees. This is association of open, non-sectarian, non-political oriented devoteees. We are searching for bhakti, for pure love, and we are happy to have association of Swami and so many nice forum members.

Dissapoitment with institutional or political affairs in the name of spirituality may lead sincere person in isolation as Jagganatha Gauranga Prabhu das mentioned. At least that is my case. Fortunately we have this forum and association of pure devotees in form of Vani.

Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krsna

Bh. Igor

 

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