Re: Initiation + lifetimes to reach the pure name

Dear Srinath, Nityaananda! Gauraanga! Hare Krishna! Pranaams.

But since we have accepted chanting of the mantrarajas, how different does that make our situation?

The ever-offensless Nityaananda Gauraanga Naama certainly do make it a lot easier to attain the offenseless chanting stage of Shuddha Naama in this very life itself if we chant an adequate qualitative quantity of these Names along with the Hare Krishna Mahaamantra.

The other topic is on initiation. Mahaprabhu said that initiation was not necessary for chanting the names of the Lord? What is the difference between those who chant without receiving diksha and those who chant after receiving diksha?

Initiation is not necessary for chanting the Holy Names. But initiation from a Guru who has realized the truths of the Name greatly speedens up the process of success in our Naama Bhajana because we receive the shelter and backing of the whole Guru Parampara via the medium of our own Guru.

When a person receives diksha one chants various gayatri mantras and in the Brahma Samhita Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati says that they indicate Radha Krishna in the madhura rasa. But we do not know what our svarupa is. So where do those mantras take us.

They awaken our dormant svarupa and impart us the required knowledge.

First initiation is harinama initiation and second initiation is mantra initiation. Is it true that mantra initiation was not given before Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati? Why is second initiation given?

That is no true. Previously Diksha meant the second Mantra initiation since Naama chanting can began without initiation also. For example, Lord Gaura received Diksha in the ten-syllable Gopala Mantra from Shrila Ishvara Puripada.

My apologies for the last post. I feel I have committed a grave offense.

Absolutely not Srinath. All your points were valid and we welcome such constructive discussions which lead us to the truth.

Daaso'smi, Swami Gaurangapada.

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Re: Spiritual master, initiation and reactions

Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krishna!

Dear Gurudeva, Bhakta Igor and devotees, please accept my humble obeisances.

Bhakta Igor I came across a very interesting conversation between a devotee and Srila Sridhar Maharaja about the eternal relationship between guru and disciple�

Devotee: We are often told, regarding the guru and the disciple, that if the disciple is not successful in becoming a completely pure devotee in this life, then the guru will return by taking another birth. But does the guru personally take another birth?

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: The relationship must continue. Whether that particular soul who was delegated as the guru in his previous life will personally come � whether he will again be sent or not � there is no guarantee: but in any case the disciple will maintain his awareness of that higher connection. He will recognize it just as it was in former stages, although it may be in a different form. It will not be unknown to him. And he will also perceive that, �I am not unknown to my master.� But the guru�s external form may not be similar.

Suppose a disciple takes his next birth in a particular country or a particular sect: the guru may also appear in a particular country or a particular sect, but that the disciple will again come in exactly the same position as before, that may not be. And that the guru will also come as he did previously � in that fixed position � that may also not be. But they will be able to recognize one another. The guru will know about the disciple�s previous life, and the disciple will also think, �He knows everything about me.� With such broadness of vision we are to look at our Guru Maharaj. So guru-tattva means that it is saksad-dharitvena: not only the person, but the person plus something more. And that arrangement is made by the Lord or His svarupa-sakti. But whatever the external circumstance, there will be no disturbance regarding the path for the disciple.

Devotee: I don�t know if this is correct, but I have heard it said that if the disciple is not spiritually successful, then the guru may not return back to Godhead, but may remain in this brahmanda (universe)� He may not return to Krishna until the disciple can also go.

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: If that is the case, then no guru can ever return to Krishna at any time, because the continuation of the disciples will go on � so he will have no final result at any time in his life! But we cannot think that it is so. Sometimes he may be deputed himself, or others also may be deputed in that case. But the inner instruction and inner feeling and paraphernalia will be such that, in any case, the disciples will have no trouble: the officer may change, but the function will go on smoothly. So the guru may return as the nama-guru, the mantra-guru, or the sannyas-guru. They are all gurus, but we must recognize something similar in them, thus we are given the statement about the ontological aspect of guru � saksad-dharitvena samasta: �I Myself appear as the guru, who is simultaneously and inconceivably one with and different from Myself.�

Krishna says, acaryam mam vijaniyat: �You should look there for Me. I am there. I am your Guru. With My different types of sakti, by the jivas� recruitment, or by any other way, it is My function to take you up to a different place. In every case I am there: I am there in My madhura rasa sakti, sakhya rasa sakti, vatsalya rasa sakti, dasya rasa sakti, and in a general way also.� Sometimes one may be recruited by the Ramanuja sampradaya and then be converted to join the Krishna sampradaya, the Gaudiya sampradaya. That is also possible. We are to remember the eternal link.

Devotee: So if someone says that the guru himself will personally come back, that is a mundane conception � a wrong conception?

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: Yes. The main thread is there, but it will not always appear in the same form. Although to the beginners one may say, �He will come back,� ultimately we find that a disciple may even be transferred into another section, and then another section, so that he may gradually reach his destination. According to the unfolding of his inner necessity, this �departmental change� may occur. And he will always perceive his own guru in newer and newer ways: at first sight he perceived his guru to be of one type, then again, with progress, he will see the same guru in another way, and thereafter another new characteristic will be found in his gurudeva. The disciple will feel: �I could not detect so much in my guru in the beginning � I saw him in one particular way � but now I find that he is something more, and then he is still more.� In this way there is divine enfoldment [evolution or development] .

In this world there is [evolution], and in the higher domain also, there is [evolution]. So avesa: the guru is something like saktyavesa. There is the �chance contingency� saktyavesa � who is deputed according to a particular time, place, or circumstance � and there is also the permanent saktyavesa. But in all cases � according to the necessity of the situation and by the divine dispensation of the Lord � the disciple will be connected, and he won�t feel any distrust: it is the presence within. He will quench the thirst for the full progress of his heart, there will be divine enfoldment [progress] within his heart, and again he will begin a new thirst. And that new thirst will be quenched by whom? By his guru. It will be quenched by his guru and he won�t have any feeling of unscrupulousness or anything else. As his internal thirst is being satisfied, he will feel, �Here is my gurudeva.�

Wherever there is enfoldment [development], gradual enfoldment [progress] � and full attention given to that � then we can understand that, from the upper side, there is guru. Gurudeva is my guide, and as I progress, guidance of different types will be necessary for me � always new guidance. My progress will take me into different places, and there a new type of guidance � a new life � will again come. In this way, dynamic life is going on, and the main thread is there: raso vai sah � the pure rasa, pure ecstasy. And my inner heart will approve: �Yes, I want this! This is my fate! This is my fortune!� Otherwise, if any madhyama-adhikari is appointed as guru and has so many disciples � and if he is to come back again and again � then he could never enter into nitya-lila! That cannot be so. In any case, whoever is connected with a genuine guru will be satisfied, because the Lord is present there.

So acaryam mam vijaniyat is not in name only � it has a very specific purpose:

acaryam mam vijaniyan / navamanyeta karhicit
na martya-buddhyasuyet a / sarva-deva-mayo guruh

Krishna says: �Don�t try to limit the acarya! If you achieve a high position, will you then think that you have surpassed that acarya through whom you received your initial instruction in spiritual life? No. Don�t think that there is less in him (navamanyeta). Don�t consider him to be of lower position � I Myself am there! I was there in your primary teacher, I was there in your college-level teacher, and I am there in your postgraduate professor too. So navamanyeta: don�t only judge the external appearance. I Myself am your guide in different forms. It is I!�

The acarya has more spacious characteristics than that of the ordinary, general Vaishnava (sarva-deva- mayo guruh). Krishna says: �For you, I am there. I am backing so many acaryas. There are so many acaryas, and I am working through them. The acaryas are like helmsmen in so many different boats, and I am the favorable wind helping those boats to make progress (mayanukulena nabhasvateritam) . So don�t limit the acarya. Try to see him on the same level as Me.�

Your servant,

Hadai Nityananda dasa

Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krishna!

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Re: Diary of chanting aspirant

Dear Damodara Svarupa dasa, Nityaananda! Gauraanga! Hare Krishna! Pranaams. I apologize for your disappointment. In the pure branch of our Gaudiya Vaishnava philosophy, we do not read or allow and are not even remotely interested in critical hagiographies of pure devotees. We consider it an offense to have a critical mentality about the lives of pure devotees. Neither do we associate with people who write critical biographies of even non-perfected devotees, what to speak of the associates of the Lord...shrivanti gayanti grinanti sadhavah.

Whatever other traditions want, they may do, but we Gaudiyas have our own principles.  Nowadays openess, universal acceptance, interfaith, critical views etc. have become the favorite path of many religious traditions but we have our own restrictions as given by Lord Gaura Himself which I have explained in the next paragraph. Therefore, a comparison of our philosophy with other philosophies may not be appropriate.

Our Vedic scriptures do not need any evidence/proof from modern day science to support the Vedic scriptural injunctions. Even if the modern science has apparently some mundane proof against a Vedic injunction, we will still accept the Vedic injunction. We place our full faith in the perfected souls who have composed the Vedic scriptures and not on the imperfect scientists who are hampered by the four imperfections of bodily identification. We absolutely do not need scientific proof or critical hagiographies to awaken our faith in the Acharyas and the Vedic scriptures. That necessary faith awakens in our soul simpy by chanting the Holy Names.

This seems to be the part where the shoe pinches. What do we accept as the truth and which part of the truth is not at all acceptable? This raises yet another question: which veil should be thrown over that part we don't like to hear?

It is not above any shoe pinches at all. Swami BG Narasingha also does not accept all parts of the Sva Likhita Jivani as authentic because of some quite offensive statements (not merely dry statements as you say) against the Acharya and the lack of faith in the conception and character of the person who received this letter and kept it with him for a long time. Shrila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada also had many fundamental philosophical differences from the person who received this letter.

The truth remains that some actual actions of the Acharyas simply cannot be understood by our defective mundane vision. However additionally there are some falsified mundane actions which are attributed to the Acharyas and sometimes to the Lord Himself, which simply cannot be the truth and which were never performed by the Lord or the Acharyas. So stating untruth as the untruth is actually for removing the veil over the untruth and not to hide or cover the truth. Obviously we will feel pain if some gross untruth is spread about our Acharya Shrila Sacchidananda Bhaktivinoda Thakura. Of course that pinches the sincere followers of Shrila Bhaktivinoda Thakura.

The answers are stereotypic.

The answer is simple. Because the Sva Likhita Jivani was not officially authorized or published by Shrila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada himself, we do not accept all parts of it as authentic. We accept the authorization of an Acharya to verify the authenticity of a book written by another Acharya. This may seem 'stereotype" but it is the safest path for our own spiritual lives and thus we accept this one.

You said it yourself: "tell us how a great soul become a saint". This person already is a great soul. It doesn't tell about their struggles and, more important, how they overcame these obstacles on their way to God. There's no teaching by example here and the disciple is left on his own again. He has yet again to find out for himself...

A pure devotee even though perfect right from the beginning is subjected to many trials, tribulations and obstacles in his life directly by the Lord, in order to show us the ideal example of how to face these difficulties in our own lives. An ideal biography will certainly describe these difficulties which a pure devotee had to pass through but in a very respectful and absolutely non-critical manner. I have to confess that even "hagiography" is not fully correct word to express what I am stating. I will post an ideal biography of Shrila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada written by Shrila Bhakti Pradipa Tirtha Maharaja as an example after some time.

I at least was hoping for a very open minded approach to the truth.

Honestly, in the philosophy of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, we have a limit to which we can be open-minded. The Lord severely chastised His intimate associate Shrila Mukunda for being very open-minded to various other philosophies not favorable to Bhakti. The sincere followers of Lord Gauraanga have to accept this "restriction" in our Gaudiya philosophy and remain within the constraints of open-mindedness which is allowed by the Lord Himself so that one does not step over the authority of the Lord Himself and does not displease Him. This may look like a "limitation" or "restriction" in our Gaudiya philosophy but it is ultimately for saving us from the grave dangers of a multitude of speculative philosophies which have become popular in Kali Yuga. A little restriction is most beneficial for our spiritual benefit.

I hope this helps somewhat to comfort your disappointment. This is a friendly discussion and is not a tense discussion meant to prove one over the other. I rather feel it has been an interesting discussion which have brought to light many finer points which would not have been discussed without your valuable contributions. I am sorry if you felt offended in any way but that was not my intention at all.

Daaso'smi, Swami Gaurangapada.

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Re: Doubts on Bhaktisiddhanta Video authenticity

Dear Damodara Svarupa dasa, Nityaananda! Gauraanga! Hare Krishna!

Well in fact, it is important, if not only for the credibility of the people, known for �disliking untruths�, who made it.

That is why I am suggesting that one should hear the explanation of BV Giri Maharaja before coming to a conclusion. His Holiness Swami BG Narasingha is his Gurudeva, under whose direction this documentary was made, and I don't think he would ever allow or approve or authorize the fabrication of this video as it is being claimed by others.

Daaso'smi, Swami Gaurangapada.

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Re: Diary of chanting aspirant

Nityananda, Gauranga, Hare Krishna.

 

Hagiographies come in two kinds: practical and critical. The former ones tend to stretch the truth and was used to instruct the 'common people'. It has a pejorative reference to the works of contemporary biographers and historians whom critics perceive to be uncritical and even "reverential" in their writing. A practical hagiography is by no means a biography. On the other hand, a critical hagiography, using a scientific approach, focuses on dry facts only. Though these dry facts always seem to be put aside as 'too mundane'... Yet these facts are a part of the truth as well. Why should this part of the truth than be considered as blasphemy? Or criticism? Or an insult? And why neglect these facts anyway?  All this muddling doesn't do any good to the teaching/learning process itself.

 In the Christian tradition, scientists are continuously searching for new evidence/proof of what is written in the Bible. The fact that they once and a while make very impressive discoveries, give us new insights (cf Qumran scrolls). At least they try to tell the “facts-as-they-are”. Combine this with what one knows about the Holy Bible and faith can become even more solid. Also look at the hagiography by Pope Gregorius on St Benedictus. At least that's a nice mixture of both a practical and critical hagiography and lots can be learned from it.

 >>But what if it does not stick to the truth? <<
This seems to be the part where the shoe pinches. What do we accept as the truth and which part of the truth is not at all acceptable? This raises yet another question: which veil should be thrown over that part we don't like to hear? The answers are stereotypic. Either one is not pure enough to understand it, or if one is an erudite person, the typical answer is that even a most learned person cannot comprehend the actions of a pure devotee. That uneasy part of the truth can also be rejected as blasphemy, causing fall down, ... What a waste and what a pity!

>>A factual and highly respectful hagiographical biography of an Acharya will certainly tell us how a great soul become a saint for our inspiration.<<
You said it yourself: "tell us how a great soul become a saint". This person already is a great soul. It doesn't tell about their struggles and, more important, how they overcame these obstacles on their way to God. There's no teaching by example here and the disciple is left on his own again. He has yet again to find out for himself...

 Therefore, the reactions I've read on this topic are very disappointing, indeed. I at least was hoping for a very open minded approach to the truth.

Damodara Svarupa dasa

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Initiation + lifetimes to reach the pure name

Respected Swamiji and Vaisnavas,

  Nityaananda Gauraanga Hare Krishna! 

  All glories to the guru parampara!

  Please accept my respectful obeisances. I had read somewhere that Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati where he said that those who chant Hare Krishna offensively need to take one more life where they chant with namabhasa (glimpse of the pure name) and  in the life after  that they chant the holy names and reach full perfection. Is this a fact?

  But since we have accepted chanting of the mantrarajas, how different does that make our situation?

  The other topic is on initiation. Mahaprabhu said that initiation was not necessary for chanting the names of the Lord? What is the difference between those who chant without receiving diksha and those who chant after receiving diksha?

   When a person receives diksha one chants various gayatri mantras and in the Brahma Samhita Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati says that they indicate Radha Krishna in the madhura rasa. But we do not know what our svarupa is. So where do those mantras take us.

   First initiation is harinama initiation and second initiation is mantra initiation. Is it true that mantra initiation was not given before Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati? Why is second initiation given?

   My apologies for the last post. I feel I have committed a grave offense. Henceforth I will never pursue such topics as you have made me realise that it is as futile as trying to catch the sky or tell stories to dead bodies. I will not make any more issues out of non-existent matters. Please forgive me this time. I am falling at all your feet.

My apologies,

Worthless Rascal 'smi,

Srinath

 

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Re: Scriptural evidences for Mahaprabhu in ppt

Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krsna

Thank you Venkatji for making and posting this presentation. On such visual way (Power point orOpenOffice or some other presentation software) we can visualy memorise verses about Lord Gauranga. Thanks a lot.

Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krsna

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Re: Doubts on Bhaktisiddhanta Video authenticity

Nityananda, Gauranga, Hare Krishna.

 >>Since it is a very small clip with no audio, it is not such a big thing whether it is accepted or not.<<
Well in fact, it is important, if not only for the credibility of the people, known for ‘disliking untruths’, who made it. The video fragment shows how it could have been in the past, and in this way it has an educational value. But letting other people believe it is an authentic fragment is quite a different piece of pie.

Damodara Svarupa dasa

 

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Photos of Our Gurudeva (Swami Gaurangapada)

Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krsna

I would like to start thread where we can post photos of our Gurudeva, Swami Gaurangapada. I know that there are many photos on Flick, but I am hoping that disciples and friends of Our Gurudeva have some pictures on digital cameras, etc so please share. I do not have any photos that are not already uploaded, but, anyway I wanted to start this thread.

Swami Gaurangapada ki jay!

Here are several beautiful photos, please share more:

nama om gaurangapadaya nitai-presthaya bhutale;     
shrimate bhaktiratna sadhu iti namine.     

"I offer my humble obeisances unto His Holiness Tridandi Bhikshu Shrila Bhaktiratna Sadhu Swami Gaurangapada, who is very dear to Lord Shri Nityananda Prabhu, having taken shelter at Lord Shri Gauranga Mahaprabhu's lotus feet."

gauranga-nama-dhama-bhakta-lila pracharine;     
nityananda-gauranga-nama-sahitya vitarine.     

"He is instrumental in preaching, spreading and distributing the supreme glories of the Holy Names, Pastimes, Associates and Abodes of the Supreme Lords Nityananda Gauranga and the distribution of the ebooks, paperbooks and videos of Their glories."

 

 Gurudeva ki jay!

 

 

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Re: Click Source to Embed Video Code in the Posts

In the Quick post box, you don't need any source button. Just paste the video embed code directly and type your message. Thank you Venkat.

Daaso'smi, Swami Gaurangapada.

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Re: Doubts on Bhaktisiddhanta Video authenticity

Dear Srinath, Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krishna! Jaya Shri Guru Parampara! Pranams! In this specific case, I personally have faith in BV Giri Maharaja who made the documentary with a lot of hard work research for many years and found and included this small video clip. I am almost sure that he would not fabricate this video because he has a general disllike for untruths. You can write to him for the exact details and also hear his detailed explanation on how and where he found the video before coming to a final decision. You can contact him via the devavision website. It is better to hear both sides. You are free to decide yourself either way. Since it is a very small clip with no audio, it is not such a big thing whether it is accepted or not. The whole jist is that we accept the teachings of Shrila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada and become his true followers.

Daaso'smi, Swami Gaurangapada.

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Scriptural evidences for Mahaprabhu in ppt

Respected Swamiji and all devotees,

Nityaananda Gauraanga Hare Krishna!

All glories to Vaishnavas!

Here is a powerpoint presentation on scriptural evidences of Mahaprabhu's appearance in an attractive, easy to read .ppt form. Hope you like it.

   Here is the link for it : http://www.wikifortio.com/814306/Chaita … ctions.pps

The ppt will be up for a month from today

In the service of the Vaishnavas,

Venkat.

 

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Re: Click Source to Embed Video Code in the Posts

Nityaananda Gauraanga Hare Krishna!

Swamiji, thanks for telling us how to embed a video in a new post. How do embed one in a message or comment like this? There is no source button here. How do you embed a video in a reply to a post?

Aspiring to serve and please you,

Venkat

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Doubts on Bhaktisiddhanta Video authenticity

Respected Swamiji and all Vaisnavas,

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krishna!

Jaya Visnupada Srila Prabhupada!

Jaya Visnupada Swami Gaurangpada!

All glories to the guru parampara!

All glories to the Vaisnavas!

    

First please forgive me if I have committed an offense of any sort. Once again I ask you to forgive me and not hold any misigivings with me but please answer my doubts. I have no intention to challenge. But at the same time you must clear the demon of doubt and misgiving that has always been with me because I personally try to seek only the perfect things as far as devotion is concerned and I have had a habit of going to great pains to verify the authenticity of just about anything related to spiritual science.

Recently I found an old video of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati where he points to a book in the Caitanya Matha lasting for 32 seconds. While it is certainly Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada in the video, I doubt the authenticity of the video. For several reasons I feel that the video has been made with computer graphics based on an older picture of Siddhanta Sarasvati. It is claimed that the video is 80 years old but Siddhanta Sarasvati's photo was taken sometime in the 1930s not the 1920s because he appears much older.

   Some people have denied that it is Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati in the video. They are certainly wrong, it is him. But it is CG rendered by using a photograph of his. Perhaps it gives us a very good feeling as to how he would have been while he was personally present and active on this planet

I pray that I have not committed an offense.

Note : Please forgive me as the video contains some very cocky humour. Respected Swamiji and vaisnavas, I personally request you not to have this posted until the truth has been verified and original the analysis videos have been seen fully.

  Here is the link to the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYE9sWzXwWU

  And a video analysis conducted quite recently in 2007 to verify the authenticity

Part 1 :   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3QEFdaFwfI

Part 2 of the analysis video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdmV3dEKpbE

After seeing this I had misgivings myself because it seemed quite convincing.

Well I am not sure when or who released the biography, but modern technology has come very very far.  These days the external eye cannot distinguish between rendering and CG. A frame by frame analysis has been done on the video, so please bear with me

The Siddhanta Sarasvati in the video and the acarya in the photo are exactly identical, but the proportions of their face do not match. In the photo his face is larger than in the video. With editing software one can change the proportion

   Old films wear down with age and acquire certain irregularities in their structure which gives the impression of the old day black and white technology. But in a 32 second video of over 700-800 films, no two frames can wear down in the exact same manner.

   These days there are software algorithms that can generate patterns to mimic the irregularities in old films. The trick is seen when ever the video shifts from one scene to another, where the programmer has to reinvoke the function, causing the same sequence of algorithms to repeat. Maybe 3-4 frames can age in the same way, but 5-6 pairs of identical wear is impossible that too in every possible scene shift.

   Not only that, the video also shows an elliptical border or a halo where only the central portion is clear surrounded by blackness. Irregular spread of lighting cannot be taken as the cause as by no means can such a perfect boundary be generated. This effect can be mimicked with software

  Further the caitanya Math building imagery is not 70 years old, it has been taken in 2006 because its background remains unchanged for 70-80 years (??)

  Morever the scene where he raises his hand is repeated twice before he points to a book. The two frames can be superimposed over each other because they have identical hand and mouth movements. Further the same software irregularities can be seen indicating copy pasting.

Aspiring to be your servant

Maha Mudho'smi,

Srinath

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How to put tilak

Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krishna!

All glories to the Vaishnavas.

This is a nice video on how to wear the tilak. Personally I wear one using a stick but this video shows how to wear it without one. Hope you like it.

Aspiring to please and serve Vaishnavas,

Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krishna!

Venkat

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