Re: My Video Reply to the Puri Incident Regarding Shrila Prabhupada

This is an every day occurrence. We don't like to see Srila Prabhupada's books on the floor or the street when they are sold, but I don't go around punching people because they throw a book with Srila Prabhupada's picture in the trash; or burn Prabhupada's books.

This is an every day occurrence, but do we hear in the newspaper no way. If we did hear of it then there would a war.

Followers of Nitai Chaitanya Chandra are meant to be humble, tolerant, and give respects to others.

Now if I offended my neighbour without a doubt he will retaliate even to the point of hurting me where it hurts most that is regarding my family, and yes I would be upset I may even break the law.
You can see where this is going.
Point one: I should never invoke another�s anger.
Point two: will I accept the repercussion.
The outcome:

�Servitors burnt effigy of Srila Prabhupad, the founder acharya of ISKCON. Shouting slogans against the organizers�

In a court of law who would be guilty: The one invoking or the one Provoked.

The one who is provoked would be taken into consideration.

Surly the vaisnava way is to appease and listen to reason.

We have to measure this subject in a material way as most are on that level.




Yes it was a sad day to read about my diksa Guru Om Visnupada Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada being treated this way.

  �Servitors burnt effigy of Srila Prabhupad, the founder acharya of ISKCON. Shouting slogans against the organizers�

But if the ISKCON organizers had taken notice of last year's objections, then the Puri servitors would not have done this travesty of unjustly action against my Gurudev. The ISKCON organizers knowing full well the consequence of their action would put my Gurudev and themselves in jeopardy.


lowerthanarat

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Re: What is the specified meaning of the dhamas?

Haribol,
thank you very much for very good answers.

Respectfully Fabian

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Re: My Video Reply to the Puri Incident Regarding Shrila Prabhupada

Dear Vaisnavas,

     Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krishna! Please accept my obeisances!

     Now we get to the point. It is of course not possible for us to go about fighting angrily with non-believers and offenders as then we'll be outnumbered 999 to 1. Its true that in modern days people provoke others by doing something harsh and then the provoked person gets trapped. I believe Swamiji's reply is the best way a devotee can respond to this sort of a situation -- stick to the facts. As for the rest we can only pray that those souls realise their mistake as it is still not too late. However the point I want to make is that one must never say that the people involved have not committed a Vaishnava aparadha. That is why the strong responses. That argument could have been avoided. Anyway, let bygones be bygones. We are here for sacred association and let us not get caught up in argument-counter argument business.

      What Swamiji has pointed out is very clear and scripturally this whole issue is baseless. The only way is to have a proper discussion of the scriptures with an unbiased mentality and let those who are intelligent accept the truth.The devotees are right, though when the non-devotees are going to wake up and accept it is another is a question. Only time will tell.

     Previously the reason why foreigners were not allowed in the temple was because the foreign mleccha rules had destroyed innumerable temples, destroyed many deities, slaughtered many pious people and devotees in heinous ways and accumulated unlimited sins and offenses and also spread false philosophies and misconceptions. This originally created a feeling of insecurity which required tight control over people coming to the temples. In many temples all over India, these rules are still enforced with variations, such as people of other faiths not being allowed in.

     But now many things have changed. What happened was that even those who were devotees were not being allowed to see or serve Lord Jagannath. Therefore, Lord Jagannath who is a very merciful of the Lord went personally outside India with Srila Prabhupada. At that time no one protested. Prabhupada was quite respected for spreading the glories of Puri. Only recently have some people with sectarian mentality started preaching such misconceptions, quite ignorant of the great service that Prabhupada has done for them, Lord Jagannath and Jagannatha Puri. If they are really concerned about the temple or the holy dham they should consider all this, which they have not. 

      So the ultimate decision lies in the desire of the Lord. If He wants his Ratha Yatra to be held everywhere including all places in India it will happen even if the 14 worlds cry foul. What Lord Jagannatha desires is known to Himself alone and the Lord never tolerates offenses to his devotees. Let us not speculate on the Lord's intentions by using some other examples.  But now one thing is certain that the Lord will not forgive the Vaisnava aparadhis unless they fall at Prabhupada's feet and beg offenses.

      Of course the non-devotees are very easily provoked into committing offenses, but this they do because of their own free will and not because of faults in the devotees' character. The Rath Yatras are never held with any intentions to provoke and compete with the Puri Jagannath Rath Yatra. So it is incorrect to say that ISKCON provoked the opposition party and it is also incorrect to sympathise with the offenders.

       Ultimately we pray that the Lord step in with His infinite love and mercy. We may have our opinions,  but if we let the Lord come in we put matters in His hands, insiginificant or critical, and surrender to His will. He will arrange a solution that is best for everyone. The controversial issues have been going on for a while, but till now we on the sanga have only discussed the factual principles internally among ourselves and have not openly made such strong comments against the actions of the non-believers because we fully know that the Lord can easily work around the intentions of the atheists for the sake of his devotees.

       The whole point in raising this topic for discussion and making the video was to protest against the Vaisnava apradha that has been done to Prabhupada and in the process all the other issues have also come to light. The main point is not about who's provoking who or who is ultimately responsible or who's breaking the rules of the scriptures or whether the custom should be brokern or not or who's personal opinion is right. Vaisnava apradha is Vaisnava apradha and the Lord won't tolerate that. That is the Lord's own statement and that's all that matters.

        This video has not been made to encourage further arguments and take dualistic sides, "He is friend, he is enemy." A pure devotee is compassionate to all and so this warning is a sign of His mercy. The purpose of this video is to make this fact clear to the offenders that if their offense is totally baseless and that they should realise the glories of Prabhupada and the terrible sin they have committed; that it's not too late even now to repent and that if they don't wake up soon, they are all going to be in for big trouble from the anger of Lord Jagannatha.

       As for the debate on etiquette, let us all surrender to the Lord and accept His decision. Ultimately both Ramanujacharya and the Jagannatha priests surrender to Lord Jagannatha's wish. Like Lord Chaitanya's sankirtana was the ultimate solution for both the devotees and the non-believers, so we just surrender before the Lord knowing that what he decides is always good for the ultimate welfare of all souls without relativistic or dualistic considerations. So in the end we pray that those who have offended Prabhupada realise their mistake and make good for it.

       Whatever the Lord's will is, let that be accepted by one and all. The devotees will always accept this as their opinions are not different from the Lord. A real devotee has no personal opinion of His own and therefore what He says is the Lord's opinion on things. So why argue otherwise?

        To make the points clear I took it on my head to transcribe Swamiji's video to the extent possible and within my limited and imperfect understanding I have tried to give what I feel is a proper explanation of the video for those who need clarification and also to sort out any misunderstandings anyone may have about our statements and our motives. I hope that is clear. Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krishna!

Servant of the servant,
Srinath

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Re: My Video Reply to the Puri Incident Regarding Shrila Prabhupada

Dear Swamiji and all Vaisnavas,

     Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krishna! Please accept my respectful obeisances!

     By the mercy of Lord Nitaai I was able to transcribe Swamiji's video into text. I have highlighted the points where there are discontinuities by (break) and ambiguous or unclear statements by (?) or (indistinct). Some words spoken are not known to me so I have merely tried to transcribe the sound as I heard it. In some places wherever I felt necessary, I have suggested some correction in brackets so that the meaning is clear as spoken and written English are two different things. I have transcribed it literally as I have heard it so some editing is necessary to convert it into written English if it has to be published.

    This being my very first attempt, there may certainly be many shortcomings. I pray that you will excuse all that and suggest ways to better my service with whatever insignificant skill this worthless soul may have

      Transcription of the video :

Swamiji : The answer for that...that recently Prabhupada's effigy was burnt by the pandas here in Puri and they committed a big Vaisnava aparadha. They committed an offense against the biggest servant of Jagannatha in modern times. Prabhupada, he glorified Jagannatha, and actually Prabhupada was fully following the scriptures. In Bhakti Rasamrta Sindhu it is described that wherever there are temples, the deity should come out and the Ratha Yatra should be held in every temple. Actually it should be held every day!...Rath Yatra should be held every day, the Lord should be brought out to deliver all the fallen living entities.  (Padma Purana Quote)

   So Rath Yatra is the eternal pastime, the nitya pastimes, daily pastime. Prabhupada did not break any rules by conducting Rath Yatra on different days in different parts of the world. (Hindi) In the Bhakti Rasamrta Sindhu it is mentioned in the Padma Purana that wherever there is a temple there should be the Rath Yatra. The Lord should be brought out so that all the fallen souls can be delivered...everyday he must be brought out.

     (English) But atleast once in a year that Rath yatra is performed...in Puri, in the month of June-July, that doesn't mean that Jagannatha...actually Jagannatha is always anxious to go to Vrindavan. (Hindi) (indistinct). (English) If you take him throughout the year, he will go there. See, more than rituals is the mood. Our Gaudiya worship is...it is pancharatriki marg. Jagannatha temple worship, they are not..they have a different kind of worship. So no ritualistic panchopasana kind. Shankaracharya, when he came there kind of followed that kind of worship. So they are more into that system that day, that day has to be followed and everything has to happen only on that day...and anything outside of that day should not be held.

     But the point is...that this (indistinct) ... this ratha yatra is the lila when the gopis, they made the chariot in the heart. In Kurukshetra when they saw Krishna after 100 years they made the chariot. They put...they put Krishna on the chariot and they were pulling Krishna back to Vrindavan because Radharani said, "Krishna, we cannot enjoy our pastimes here because...there is a different mood here. I need Jamuna, I need Govardhan and I need...Vrindavan to enjoy our pastimes so you...we will bring you back. So that pulling, that Rath Yatra mood is the eternal pastime of the Lord. It can be remembered any day. Nobody can say, "Today don't remember Rath Yatra; you should remember Rath Yatra only in June-July. (Hindi) Will anyone say like this, "Don't remember Rath Yatra now, remember only in June- July? This is a lila, the Lord's eternal pastime... (English)..is the eternal pastime....One can enact it at any time. One can build a rath and pull the Lord back to Vrindavan. Actually everday we should do that....

      So, there is no harm, and actually the pandas, they don't know that Prabhupada did do Rath Yatra on different days, because he wanted people to still come to Puri for the original Rath Yatra! He did not want the importance of the original Rath Yatra to be compromised. If the Rath...all the Rath Yatras are held on the same day, then people will attend the Bangalore Rath Yatra or they will attend the...Ahmedabad Rath Yatra or Delhi Rath Yatra; they will not even come to Puri! They will not see this Rath Yatra on TV, televsion. Those who can't come, they normally watch on television, that Puri Rath Yatra. Even that also they may not watch because they will think, "By attending...you know...this Rath Yatra in my town I am getting the same benefit as going to Puri; they'll start thinking like that. Which...which is not true; Prabhupada did not want to compromise the importance. That's why he held Rath Yatras at different times so that devotees can still plan to come once a year to India and...from different parts of the world they can attend the original Rath yatra; at the same time they can serve and participate in the Rath Yatra in their own towns.

       Plus another reason was that Rath Yatra is meant to deliver the people. Lord Jagannath is coming out; anybody who gets up to welcome Lord Jagannatha when the Rath comes, he gets delivered fromt the cycle of birth and death. Anyone who pulls that rope, he will never see the womb of the mother again. So, Rath Yatra is physically done to involve many many people...to...let them get the benefit of Jagannath seva! So if the Rath Yatra is held in the...in the rainy season in India in different places in June-July (when) there is heavy rains, nobody will come, maybe 5,10 20 percent of the people will come, then the benefit is not attained. What is the use then!? It is known as niyama-aagrahah; you may rigidly follow the rules, but if people are not benefitted, then what is the use? So the pandas, they want to rigidly follow the rules, but higher principle than that is...let Jagannatha's mercy should be...gone (given) to more people. So in the rainy season it is very very difficult to hold Rath Yatra in different parts, like if it is in Gujarat we found in the Rath Yatra time in the rainy season nobody comes out of their house for Rath Yatra, because heavy rain, they can't even have kirtan because the mridanga, the musical instruments, the sound system doesn't work. So, if the ultimate goal is to glorify Jagannath to this world, to allow more people to pull the cart of Jagannath, to allow more people to see Lord Jagannath going to Vrindavan, to meditate on this lila, then this...this cannot be...should not be condemned. I mean, this...we were not expecting this from the pandas. They should been educated, somebody should have told them. Actually they don't know the real reason behind what Prabhupad is doing.

      And Jagannatha Rath Yatra is also eternal. If in one universe it ends, it starts in another universe. Yes?

Devotee : But it's only in the last two or three years that this...this mood has developed. So it...it's obvious that...this following, that there's just a small number of (break) pandits (?) (break)...or something, they decided to create this...this horrible offense. Previously, even when Srila Prabhupada was with us on the planet no one...never heard that Puri pandits made an attack or they complained that Prabhupada would (was) starting Rath Yatras worldwide. He was very much respected and glorified for introducing the Rath Yatra to the western world and then all over the world!

Swamiji : Yes...

Devotee : So...it's...it's just...recently that...that's been made (?) contagious; it's like a big wave, especially in India when someone in America (?) decides that something is wrong....

Swamiji (interrupts) : And the next thing...and the next thing they will say that Jagannath's deities can only be worshipped by their own people all over the world. Next thing they will say that it may not be worshipped by...so I mean this, this kind of dangerous philosophy, smarta philosophy can have any limits. You know it has started that now you can't do at a different date, next will be you can't worship there either (?) ... you know only those sabadas and those coming in the lineage of Vishvasu and Vidyapati only...they can worship Jagannatha. So that...that kind of materialistic thinking may come, but...the thing is that the pandas should understand that why now Jagannath Puri is becoming a very famous place in India and all over the world; that actually television programmes are increasing about Jagannath and the number of people coming to Puri has increased a lot in the last few years. Why? Its because Prabhupada, he spread Rath Yatra all over India, all over the world. So people understand; when people see Jagannatha going in the streets they say, "Where is he? What is he?" Then people say about Jagannath Puri, "You have to visit there!"...I mean, Jagannath Puri is glorified. So ultimately Prabhupada has increased the glories of Puri and increased the visitors in Puri, and...I mean, they don't allow westerners to go inside the temple, that is their problem basically. But the number of devotees visiting Puri has increased, and the glories of Jagannatha Puri has spread, it's because of Prabhupada.

         And if...all the Rath Yatras, it is impractical...practically impossible to hold Rath Yatras on the same day, I mean, all over the world. Organisation also, the different chariots, the murtis, you know how you can have that many sets of murtis? How you can have that many sets of chariots? Normally they carry one chariot to different places if it is on different dates. So I mean...and I mean if they are so much worried about it, then maximum what we can do is we don't call it Rath Yatra, we can call it Shoba Yatra. Jagannatha Shoba Yatra. I mean...it's just playing with words. If somebody...the Shoba Yatra can be held everyday for the deity of Jagannatha. So, I mean...if you say rigidly that Rath Yatra, it can only be held in June-July, then should see that what Prabhupad has introduced everywhere is basically a kind of Shoba Yatra. It is...Lord Jagannath is going to deliver everyone to (in) the world. So...and we have never claimed, Prabhupada has never claimed that these Rath Yatras are...a compromise, are...in replacement of the Puri Rath Yatra. Prabhupada never said like that...Prabhupada always glorified the pastimes in Jagannath Puri; he came here himself many times, and he wanted everyone to visit here. That is why reached out to all the towns and villages and he established the Rath Yatra there. The meat-eaters, and the people who don't even have time to go to the temple; the Lord, they can see the Lord. The Lord comes out for them, to look at them, to see them...the vision. 

         So...to (break)..foolishment (?) on foolishness! (break)...'s (?) all (break). If anybody of the pandas or any authority manages to see this video, request them please; A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada had actually done the greatest service to Jagannath Puri, and to Lord Jagannath, by introducing this pastime, it is eternal pastime to this world, and enacting this pastime in different places he has purified the different cities, the different towns, by bringing Lord Jagannath there...and he wants to bring all the devotees from different parts of India to Puri. That is why he has held Jagannath Rath Yatras at different times, in different periods. So he always wants his devotees to remain in Jagannatha consciousness. So you finish Rath Yatra in one place, then you go (to) another place, again Rath Yatra there, then you go another place, so throughout the year you don't forget Jagannatha! That is the goal of organising Rath Yatras at different times; you always remain in Jagannath consciousness; you always think about Jagannath; you always think about how he is feeling separation from...Vrindavan. So this is the mood behind Prabhupada organising Rath Yatras at different times in different places. So I hope all of you understand and we will...we will fall at the feet of Prabhupada and beg his forgiveness, if we ever thought that Prabhupada had done something not right.

         So this is not yet, it is not late. I request those who have thought like this to please understand the glories of Prabhupada and his great service to all the Jagannatha devotees in this whole world. Thank you very much....(End)

(Note : Transcription done with the help of Lord Nitaai's mercy by Srinath)

In your service,

Daasadaaso'smi,
Srinath

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Re: My Video Reply to the Puri Incident Regarding Shrila Prabhupada

Don't break the custom

Most Vaisnavas have heard the story of Ramanujacharya wanting to break that custom, but what was the result of that? Ramanujacharya wanted the worship of Lord Jagannath to be done in the vidhi-marga. There are some rules and regulations in the Vedas, and especially in the Manu-samhita, and he wanted the worship to be done in a bona fide way, following these rules and regulations. He thought the way the Pandas were doing the worship was not the customary way; the mantras they were using were not the right ones, and he wanted that the worship be done in the right way. All the scholars there were defeated by him. The next day, the final meeting was supposed to take place, and the King would have been forced to introduce the Vedic way of worship. While Ramanujacharya was sleeping that night, his bed was thrown three hundred miles away to Kurmmaksetra. In the morning he wondered where he was, and found that it was Kurmmaksetra.

Also Pundarika Vidyanidhi felt the Jagannath Deity's anger.

In Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu�s time there was only one Ratha Yatra and all the Vaisnavas came from all over India for this special festival. Sri Gauranga travelled all over India but he never, ever encouragea anyone to start the cart festival. In fact, some of the great devotees like Srila Hari Das Thakura and Srila Sanatana Goswami avoided disturbing the local brahmanas.



lowerthanarat

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Re: Ramayan 3392 A.D.

Dear devotees,

     Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krishna! One thing I forgot to add was that the title Ramayana 3392 A.D itself sounds weird and so this is very likely to be an imaginary attempt to 'modernise' what the movie makers may think is 'ancient and primitive' setting of the Ramayana. In that case this is useless. They may think that the Ramayana was a mythological work set in the 'Stone Age' and live-action genre itself means that it will be a totally materialistic theme with hardly any benefit for anyone.

     Many modern day commentators, including some very famous and well respected people have given 1008 and more imaginary opinions on the Ramayana which are all openly Mayavada and too blasphemous to discuss. In 13 years I have seen enough to know that millions of such books all over India and the modern conception is very blasphemous and stupid. Just like the Bhagavata was a victim in Bhaktivinode's time, so the Ramayana has now become the prey of foolish commentators and readers (the Thakur's words) with the Bhagavad Gita being the other victim.

      And now the Uttara Khanda is no longer part of the modern day Ramayana and even the traditional Indian who worships Visnu cannot understand the Ramayana. This attitude is seen even in the movies which make an attempt to stick as far as possible to the original Ramayana.

     In such a case, we cannot imagine what they may do to spice up or modernise the movie. Please pass on the message to your friends as well! Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krishna!

Daasadaaso'smi,
Srinath

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