Re: acceptance and equal vision

Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krsna
Thank you Nava for wonderful answer. I agree with you in most points. Let us discuss more about bhakti. Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krsna
So if we can awaken to a vision that all is complete and perfect we will never see lack in others Quote by Nava
As far as I understand devotees see duality - this world is not perfect and complete, what is missing is bhakti, devotional service. Impersonalists say that all is one, all is perfect, good etc. This world is incomplete and imperfect. We are also. We forgot Krsna. This whole creation is in lack of Krsna. We can not sit in jail and try to see cells and other prisoners to be perfect. Everybody here is in lack of Krsna. Quote by Igor 




TEXT 17 Bhagavad Gita As It Is
pitāham asya jagato
mātā dhātā pitāmahaḥ
vedyaṁ pavitram oṁkāra
ṛk sāma yajur eva ca
pitā�father; aham�I; asya�of this; jagataḥ�of the universe; mātā�mother; dhātā�supporter; pitāmahaḥ�grandfather; vedyam�what is to be known; pavitram�that which purifies; omkāraḥ�the syllable om; ṛk�the Ṛg-veda; sāma�the Sāma-veda; yajuḥ�the Yajur-veda; eva�certainly; ca�and.
TRANSLATION
I am the father of this universe, the mother, the support, and the grandsire. I am the object of knowledge, the purifier and the syllable om. I am also the Ṛk, the Sāma, and the Yajur [Vedas].
PURPORT
The entire cosmic manifestations, moving and nonmoving, are manifested by different activities of Kṛṣṇa�s energy. In the material existence we create different relationships with different living entities who are nothing but Kṛṣṇa�s marginal energy, but under the creation of prakṛti some of them appear as our father, mother, grandfather, creator, etc., but actually they are parts and parcels of Kṛṣṇa. As such, these living entities who appear to be our father, mother, etc., are nothing but Kṛṣṇa. In this verse the word dhātā means creator. Not only are our father and mother parts and parcels of Kṛṣṇa, but their creator, grandmother, and grandfather, etc., are also Kṛṣṇa. Actually any living entity, being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, is Kṛṣṇa. All the Vedas, therefore, aim only toward Kṛṣṇa. Whatever we want to know through the Vedas is but a progressive step to understand Kṛṣṇa. That subject matter which helps us purify our constitutional position is especially Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, the living entity who is inquisitive to understand all Vedic principles is also part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa and as such is also Kṛṣṇa. In all the Vedic mantras the word om, called praṇava, is a transcendental sound vibration and is also Kṛṣṇa. And because in all the hymns of the four Vedas, Sāma, Yajur, Ṛg and Atharva, the praṇava or omkāra is very prominent, it is understood to be Kṛṣṇa. end quote.
�.this point number one is the ideal for us�the vision of the maha-bhagavat�the vision of Srila Prabhupada.




So in a higher sense there is no need to feel sad or poor about our station. Quote by Nava
I do not agree. How we can be happy if we are in separation from Lord? If we have no bhakti? We can not say that it is all right if we are separate from Him! We will accept whatever he wants, aslisya va pada-ratam pinastu mam adarsanan marma-hatam karotu va, if you like you may embrace me or if you like you may trample me, but use me as you like, but in the same time we are feeling sad or poor because we are not with Lord:

yugayitam nimesena
caksusa pravrsayitam
sunyayitam jagat sarvam
govinda virahena me

"My Lord Govinda, because of separation from You, I consider even
a moment a great millennium. Tears flow from My eyes like torrents of
rain, and I see the entire world as void."  Quote by Igor



Yes Igor the advanced devotee feels this anguish in separation. The point I was trying to bring out is, for souls like me who have not yet tasted this pure love in separation, we need to find ��balance�� and peace in our spiritual life. In my experience imbalance and feeling miserable in our daily spiritual lives is not conducive to sadhana. I have encountered such dejections and it is not spiritual separation but conditioning.



So we may see as God sees, perfect love and acceptance..quote by Nava
Yes, but there is also difference in acceptance. There is always gradation. We may say - spiritual world. But then we have - Vaikuntha planets,we have Ayodya, Goloka Vrindavana, Navadvipa. There is huge gradation in spirituality.  God's love and acceptance is perfect, but there is also difference and gradation in that love. That is variety in unity.

ye yatha mam prapadyante
tams tathaiva bhajamy aham

�All of them as they surrender unto Me I reward accordingly.� Quote by Igor
We must aspire for the vision of the maha-bhagavata. In vaikuntha according to Sri Brhad Bhagavatamrta each devotee is feeling complete happiness in his relation with the Lord. The Lord kindly appears to him in the form he cultivated when he was in the sadhana stage. As far as I know the residents of vaikuntha do not have feelings of inadequacy in their eternal service. So gradation is different than in our present conditioned state. Ofcourse if the soul had good fortune to see Vaikuntha within his heart, by God�s grace he may aspire for Goloka, as per the above quoted scripture. But that good fortune was due to the mantra Gopa Kumara faithfully chanted by the wise instruction of his Guru. By follwing the sadhana of our Gurudeva we may reach the same goal as Gopa Kumara. But as we advance gradation will be seen differently than in our present conditioned frame. Harmony exists in vaikuntha, it does not in this material world.





Please let us continue to help each other and discuss bhakti-katha.
Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krsna quote by Igor




Thank you Igor. If one looks very carefully at my writing he will see it is not from the viewpoint of suddha bhakti preaching. At best it may be karma-mishra bhakti or jnana-mishra bhakti. I have no realization of suddha bhakti unfortunately.

I outlined my post in three points. Point one being Uttmama adhikari, point two being Madhyama adhikari, and point three being Kanistha adhikari. One may see my small attempt at this if looked at closely. Personally I am situated at point three aspiring for point two. According to Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura we must raise ourselves from kanistha to madhyama platform, otherwise there will be no peace.

I have spoken from the view point, maybe carelessly, of a jnana-mishra bhakta. For two reasons. One I have no realization of suddha bhakti, and I am not well studied in scripture. Two, I took this approach to assist those of us who suffer, to be realistic in our approach to bhakti and balanced in our station. To realize our station, not be despondent with that if we are kanistha, and once realizing our station to aspire for the next platform.

Thank you for inspiring me henceforth to speak from the platform of bhakti-katha, which all our acrayas and Sri Caitanya have done in their preaching. My inability to do that kind of pure preaching is surely my shortcoming.

Hopefully readers of my post can discern what platform I speak from and take the essence only, leaving behind the aspects of my mixed devotion, and speculations.

I speak from the platform of my adhikari, which is neophyte, so that I am not fanatic or unrealistic. But conscious of where I am at. I feel such sharing would be more beneficial for the discerning reader with greater understanding of the goal of suddha-bhakti. Being situated on a higher platform they will see my imperfection. Maybe it is careless of me, to teach in such a way, as the beginner may miss out on the simplicity of suddha bhakti preaching. Please forgive me for this approach. The maha-bhagavata is full of compassion, of which I know nothing about.

I know Gurudeva understands my adhikari, and by some good fortune he has given me the grace to share from the heart, and from the viewpoint of a conditioned soul.

Please pray for me that I may be able to speak and share about bhakti-katha soon.

Sorry I have not used quotation marks etc. I don�t know how to use computers that well, and this forum is difficult for me to use.

simply fallen in an ocean of ignorance�.Nava Gauranga dasa.

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Re: un answered question

Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krsna

Regarding Jaiva-dharma:

yanra citte krishna-prema karaye udaya
tanra vakya, kriya, mudra vijneha na bujhaya

"Even the most learned man cannot understand the words, activities and symptoms of a person situated in love of Godhead."C.C.Madhya 23.39

To really understand we must attain level of pure devotion.

Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krsna
Igor

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Re: un answered question

dandavats maharajs and vaisnavas

since no one had an answer to this question I thought I would  share this with you, but I would like to ask the Bengali pandits to have a look at Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura Jaiva Dharma and see if there is a print mistake.

Having briefly looked over your references I understand your concern.



quote

When a devotee mocked the Bhagwatam's description of Rahu devouring the moon in Srila Saraswati Thakur's presence Srila Guru Maharaja offered support, "I opposed and came with some far fetched support saying that Bhaktivinode Thakur in Jaiva Dharma has created so many imaginary characters but I think that is not imagination. It might have occurred in some kalpa, some day of Brahma. And that has come. In this way I want to support that what is necessary to prove reality has got some real position."

Taking it that what is presented is accurate, in the light of what Srila Guru Maharaja says we can adjust. Also we are told there are 100 chapters in Brahma Samhita and this may be from one of the other chapters (other than the 5th).

Sripad Goswami Mahara,


we need to study our books because if a fool like me can find discrepancy what about the so called inteligencea

lowerthanarat

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Re: acceptance and equal vision

Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krsna
Thank you Nava for wonderful answer. I agree with you in most points. Let us discuss more about bhakti. Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krsna

So if we can awaken to a vision that all is complete and perfect we will never see lack in others

As far as I understand devotees see duality - this world is not perfect and complete, what is missing is bhakti, devotional service. Impersonalists say that all is one, all is perfect, good etc. This world is incomplete and imperfect. We are also. We forgot Krsna. This whole creation is in lack of Krsna. We can not sit in jail and try to see cells and other prisoners to be perfect. Everybody here is in lack of Krsna.

So in a higher sense there is no need to feel sad or poor about our station.

I do not agree. How we can be happy if we are in separation from Lord? If we have no bhakti? We can not say that it is all right if we are separate from Him! We will accept whatever he wants, aslisya va pada-ratam pinastu mam adarsanan marma-hatam karotu va, if you like you may embrace me or if you like you may trample me, but use me as you like, but in the same time we are feeling sad or poor because we are not with Lord:

yugayitam nimesena
caksusa pravrsayitam
sunyayitam jagat sarvam
govinda virahena me

"My Lord Govinda, because of separation from You, I consider even
a moment a great millennium. Tears flow from My eyes like torrents of
rain, and I see the entire world as void."

So we may see as God sees, perfect love and acceptance..

Yes, but there is also difference in acceptance. There is always gradation. We may say - spiritual world. But then we have - Vaikuntha planets,we have Ayodya, Goloka Vrindavana, Navadvipa. There is huge gradation in spirituality.  God's love and acceptance is perfect, but there is also difference and gradation in that love. That is variety in unity.

ye yatha mam prapadyante
tams tathaiva bhajamy aham

�All of them as they surrender unto Me I reward accordingly.�

Please let us continue to help each other and discuss bhakti-katha.
Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krsna

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Re: Manasika japa

Nityananda ! Gauranga ! Hare Krishna !

Dear Swami Gaurangapada,

Dandavats Pranaams.

Igor has asked a very good question but it seems the link to the answer is missing here. Please be kind enough to give us the link for the same.

Sincerely,
Mihir.

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Re: acceptance and equal vision

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!

Dear Igor and devotees, please accept my simple obiesances.

In my last reply which was short due to late at night, I said sometimes I need the Lord's love due to lack. I would like to share a bit about that lack.

In simple terms there are three ways I can see dealings and relationships with other souls.

1/ The absolute truth Sri Krsna is exactly that, absolute. He is everything. Perfect and complete. And everything that emanates from him is also perfect and complete. Even in the stories when he was fighting demons, the demons were also part of his play. Perfect play. So if we can awaken to a vision that all is complete and perfect, we will never see lack in others, and we will have attained Krsna consciousness.

2/ Or we can see this world as perfect in another way. That the supersoul is granting the desires of all jivas. In a relative sense there may appear to be disparity, unequality etc. But if we can somehow see with a higher vision we can still understand God's manifestation and designs are perfect. That each soul is reaping its desires and will gradually learn. Like a school. Such is the kindness of God, gentle, patient, wise teacher. Loving to all the children because he sees their potential and true abilities that will manifest upon graduation. Each child is unique in their growth. So this is also perfect. We are fortunate if we can see this way, and accept what is.

3/ Third. This way of seeing is more conditioned. The realm of lack. The realm of needing Krsna due to suffering, or realizing our inadequacies. This is the realm of conditioned projection of the mind. In our lack we see the whole world is lacking. it is actually a dream and not real.  We feel separation from others, from God....and we feel needy. We cry out to God in love, please help me...I am desperate. This is not the realm of pure love, pure love only wishes to satisfy the other. But saying that, in God's eyes it is still perfect, He sees no lack. Only our fearful conditioned self sees the lack. We see by God's grace our lack and then choose change. We realize we need to grow. Sin is nothing but lack of love. And what is lack of love? not realizing we are perfect and complete, that we have never fallen, that we are pure spirit serving God.

So in a higher sense there is no need to feel sad or poor about our station. All we need to do is welcome the voice of God, and accept his guiding hand, which is pure love. He will lead us to vision of beatitude, of what truly is.

There is a fourth way of seeing. Its hellish, its the realm of defiant false ego, hate, war, unforgiveness etc. It is total separation.

Now, why do the great Mahatmas the great souls show such humility and profess to have no love for Krsna. I am not sure really? I am not sure of their state of consciousness and deep love. Maybe they show us true humility by this example? So as to never grade other beings as higher or lower on some scale. So we may see as God sees, perfect love and acceptance.

For those who have accepted me, I truly thank you. By such grace and kindness I am be able to accept myself as perfect and complete spirit soul, particle of reality the beautiful. That is the key. so lets accept others and heal all too. Reciprocation in divine love.

These are my aspirations while walking this lifetime.

your servant...Nava Gauranga dasa.

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