Dear Nava Prabhu,
Nityaananda ! Gauraanga ! Hare Krishna !
Dandavat Pranaams.
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Sincerely,
Mihir.
Dear Vaisnavas,
Please accept my humble obeisances,
All glories to Srila Praphupada!
This entry is taken directly from the Hare Krishna blog http://harekrishnablog.blogspot.com/
I found it not just to be entertaining but interesting and also of course any conversations with Prabhupada are so warm like being with him.
Death: The Ultimate Philosophy
Prabhupada: But the size of the body has changed.
Brahmananda: The size has changed. It has grown, increased.
Pusta Krsna: It looks different, completely� It looks different. There is no similarity.
Prabhupada: Yes. There is no similarity. Why the child� There was no mustaches. Why you have mustaches? How you can say �The same body�? You shall have to give your own argument. Child had no mustaches; you have got now mustaches. How you can say the same body? The child had no sex desire; now you have got sex desire.
Brahmananda: They would say all these things are dormant within the child�s body, and now they are coming out.
Prabhupada: That we also say, but that body not� That �dormant� means dormant in the soul, not in the body. That is the knowledge. Dormant it is, but dormant in the soul, not in the body.
Pusta Krsna: They have to admit that it�s a different body because if the body is simply made of food and they are eating so much and evacuating so much, then it has to be a different body.
Prabhupada: No, it is different body, undoubtedly. If they foolishly argue, that is different thing. Therefore rascal. Their argument has no value. How you can be the same body? So many changes. The body is changed. (to Indian man:) What is that? It was not garam?
Indian man (1): No, garam not.
Prabhupada: So this argument, how he can refute, that he has died twenty-two years?
Pusta Krsna: Well, he can also say that he has lived twenty-two years, because he has no perception of any life before that time. He can�t remember living before.
Brahmananda: �Before, I was not alive. Now I am alive, so I have lived for twenty-two years. Before, I was dead; I was not alive. Now I am alive, so I�ve been alive for twenty-two years.�
Prabhupada: So before, you were not alive. Then how your life came?
Pusta Krsna: The combination of�
Prabhupada: Do it. Again foolishness. These rascals� (laughs) Then, if you can create life, then where is the question of dead body? You create again. Give life again. If you are so competent that you can give life, combination, then this dead body is there. You bring chemicals and inject.
Pusta Krsna: The same chemicals are there, too. The same chemicals, living body, dead body,five minutes before, five after,is the same chemicals. But they can�t explain why there is such a drastic difference.
Prabhupada: What is that same chemical?
Pusta Krsna: In the living body, two minutes before death and two minutes after�
Prabhupada: So what is that? Name that, what is that chemical. Then bring it.
Pusta Krsna: Let him try and make life. Not possible.
Prabhupada: If you know the chemical, then you bring it. Chemical is available. Why this is dead? What they will answer? What this chemical is wanting, that it is dead?
Brahmananda: Well, we may not know�
Prabhupada: Then, you rascal, why you are talking? You do not know. (laughter)
Brahmananda: But, then, neither do you know.
Prabhupada: Huh? No�
Brahmananda: You can say soul, but you don�t�
Prabhupada: No. But you cannot answer my question; therefore you are more rascal than me. You cannot answer. Your� You are�
Harikesa: You have the position. He�s in a position. He cannot answer.
Prabhupada: Yes. You say that chemical is missing. I say what is that chemical?
Pusta Krsna: No, but the chemical is not missing.
Prabhupada: Then?
Pusta Krsna: The same chemical is there. Two minutes before death and two minutes after death, the body chemistry has not changed so much.
Prabhupada: No. What is that missing that it is dead?
Pusta Krsna: They can�t answer.
Prabhupada: Therefore they are fool. You cannot answer.
Pusta Krsna: Because it�s not a question of chemical. Actually they don�t know what life is.
Prabhupada: Therefore they are foolish. Therefore he has to take knowledge from Krsna: dehino
�smin yatha� �Within this body there is soul.�
Brahmananda: You say there�s a soul, but we�ve never seen a soul. It may be your imagination.
Prabhupada: You may not see. You have not seen your forefather. That does not mean� This is all bad argument. Why do you believe? Your eyes are so imperfect; still, you say, �I did not see. I want to see.� What is the value of your eyes? You see the sun globe,a small disc. But is it so? Then how do you know that it is so big?
Pusta Krsna: By hearing.
Prabhupada: By hearing. That is important, not by seeing. Therefore sruti, Veda, is important, not your eyes.
Harikesa: When people die, though, there is usually some cause. Like they have a heart attack or they get hit by a car or some disease. So that death is caused by the disease�
Prabhupada: That is not the cause. That is the effect. You foolish, do not know. You are taking it, cause.
Harikesa: Well, when you get hit by a car, that�s a cause.
Prabhupada: Just like one man becomes insolvent, loses everything. So he said that �I had no money. Therefore I become insolvent.� But that is not the fact. He could not manage; therefore there was scarcity of money and he became failure. So that is effect. On account of his bad management, he came to a position that he could not pay to his creditor, and his business is failure. So that insolvency is not the cause. It is the effect.
Pusta Krsna: Bhisma was able to remain in his body even on a bed of arrows.
Prabhupada: So when you are going to die, these are the� On account of imminent death, these are the effects.
Harikesa: But that means that the body breaks down.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Harikesa: The body breaks down.
Prabhupada: At a certain period it will break.
Harikesa: So that is the cause, the body breaking down.
Prabhupada: Yes. So you say heart failure is the cause. No. The body is breaking; therefore heart failure.
Harikesa: So death means the body breaks.
Prabhupada: No, no. First of all your answer� You say the heart failure is the cause. The man is dying. I say that because the man is dying, the heart is failure. So heart failure is not the cause. It is the effect.
Harikesa: That�s very difficult�
Pusta Krsna: Because his karma in that body is running out, he has to leave.
Brahmananda: But if I can get some machine that will make the heart keep on beating, then the man won�t die.
Prabhupada: No. That you are failure. You have got so many machines. You go on, keeping the heart going on. That is not possible.
Harikesa: Finally they just pull out the plug. The doctor kicks the plug one day.
Prabhupada: (laughs) Yes.
Brahmananda: At the present moment, I was reading, there is one girl in America, New Jersey, teenage girl. And for some unknown reason she went to sleep one night, and in the morning she did not wake up. So they then rushed her to the hospital, and they have an artificial machine that is keeping her alive, and this has been going on for one month. All of her bodily functions are becoming more and more diminished, but still, by this machine, she is alive. Now this has gone on for one month. So now they don�t know what to do with her. Should they keep her like this, just running on the machine, or should they stop the machine and then she will die? This is a big legal problem. They don�t know what� If they stop the machine, they�ll be accused of manslaughter.
Pusta Krsna: Some Catholic priest said that better to let her die, because this is God�s way.
Prabhupada: Then he has to accept the God�s way and give up the machine.
Pusta Krsna: But in a situation like that, isn�t it more valuable to preserve human life because there�s the chance�
Prabhupada: What is the use?
Pusta Krsna: There�s a chance that somehow or another, they might be�
Prabhupada: Why should you take the chance? You are perplexed with overpopulation. And why you want to stay? One side, you are perplexed with overpopulation. Let him die.
Pusta Krsna: But they can use the argument that you�re saying that human life is simply for Krsna consciousness or God consciousness.
Prabhupada: No, from his argument, why should you try to keep it? Let him die.
Cyavana: They are afraid of death. No one wants to die.
Pusta Krsna: They are afraid someone will take them off the machine, too.
Cyavana: We want to live as long as we can.
Prabhupada: Then you have to accept that your killing child, abortion, that is sinful.
Cyavana: It�s easier for the mind to accept what is apparent to the senses. For example, to accept that I am this body is easier for my mind than to accept a philosophy which you say that we are not this body. That is very difficult for my mind to accept, whereas I can accept very immediately that I am this body.
Prabhupada: Because it is difficult, therefore you are a fool. That proves that you are a fool.
Cyavana: Why should I strive for something so difficult, such a philosophical understanding, when I can live very happily with this body?
Prabhupada: But because you do not want to die. You want happiness.
Cyavana: So I can enjoy this body.
Prabhupada: You cannot. That is the difficulty. You want, but you cannot. You want. That I know. But you cannot do it.
Harikesa: You never see happy people.
Prabhupada: That is their ignorance. They are accepting unhappiness as happiness.
Brahmananda: Well, in this world there has to be some unhappiness and there has to be some happiness.
Prabhupada: But we are trying to give you happiness only, no unhappiness.
Cyavana: But that�s not possible.
Brahmananda: That�s artificial.
Prabhupada: That you say, but we know.
Cyavana: We cannot see.
Prabhupada: You cannot see, but you will see if you be trained up. That is Krsna consciousness movement.
Cyavana: But it is easier for us to remain here and enjoy a little bit and accept a little suffering, accept this body.
Prabhupada: Therefore Krsna said that �Bhagavad-gita should be discussed amongst My devotees, not amongst the rascals.� It will be waste of time. Ya imam paramam guhyam mad-bhaktesv
abhidhasyati. Find out this verse.
Pusta Krsna:
ya idam paramam guhyam
mad bhaktesv abhidhasyati
bhaktim mayi param krtva
mam evaisyaty asamsayah
[Bg 18.68]
�For one who explains the supreme secret to the devotees, devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me.�
Prabhupada: Not to the fools and rascals. So first of all, to give them chance, let them come to the temple, take prasadam, hear sankirtana, offer obeisances by imitating others. In this way, when they become little devotee, then instruct. Otherwise it will be useless. You�ll waste your time by arguing.
Pusta Krsna: You have given the example that the field has to be plowed before the seed is sown, cultivated.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Cyavana: The mind has to want that higher taste.
Prabhupada: Ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. So this process� Bring the� Invite them. Chant Hare Krsna, dance, give them prasadam. Everyone will take part in this way, not immediately instructing that �You are not this body; you are soul.� He will not be able to.
Cyavana: It�s too difficult.
Prabhupada: Therefore this process is recommended. Caitanya Mahaprabhu argued with
Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya, Prakasananda Sarasvati, not with ordinary public. Ordinary public,�Go on chanting Hare Krsna and dancing.� Never argued, neither He discussed Bhagavatam. For ordinary public,four hours� kirtana, chanting and dancing, bas. And then give them sufficient prasadam: �Take prasada.� This process� Because unless he has got little sraddha, he will simply put some false argument and waste your time. Not in the beginning. Mad-bhaktesv abhidhasyati. First of all create him a devotee a little. Chant Hare Krsna,harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam [Adi 17.21],only. Because this is Kali-yuga, people are so fallen, so downtrodden, so rascal, cats and dogs. It is very difficult. But this process,chanting of Hare Krsna maha-mantra, giving them chance to hear it and take prasadam,that will cure. And that is easily accepted by anyone. It doesn�t matter what he is. Anyone will accept. To chant and dance and take prasadam,no one will disagree. So this is the process. When they come to the temple� Just like these boys. You are offering obeisances; they are also offering. But that will go to their credit, to become bhakta. This process should be adopted. Not in the beginning, but in the beginning give them prasadam, chant Hare Krsna. And try to sell some book. You pay something. That means he is giving some service, the hard-earned money. That will also go to his credit. And then, when he�ll concerned that �I have paid for it. Let me see what this nonsense has written. All right. Read.� And that will also convince him. This is the way. He�ll keep this body, book, and show some friend, so the infection will go on.
Cyavana: We can see in some of our boys in Kenya. Practically they have no education and very little intelligence, but still, they are doing everything. They�re falling down. They are offering all the prayers. They are taking prasadam. They are chanting. They are doing everything, even they don�t have the intelligence to understand why.
Prabhupada: You said that no chemical is missing.
Pusta Krsna: No chemical difference.
Prabhupada: But why it is dead?
Pusta Krsna: The body is dead? Well, they haven�t been able to determine that yet.
Prabhupada: Then they are rascals. There is no argument because you do not know.
Cyavana: They say �fate.� They say �There is fate.�
Prabhupada: Faith we have got, but you have no faith.
Cyavana: Not faith. Fate.
Prabhupada: What is that fate?
Cyavana: Predetermined, predestined.
Prabhupada: Who made it, the predestination?
Pusta Krsna: Higher controller.
Prahupada: Then you have to accept some higher authority, God.
Cyavana: But he is not a person. He is not a person.
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be. That is another thing. That is another question. But you have to accept some superior authority. As soon as you accept fate, destiny, then you have to accept superior authority.
Cyavana: They also say �nature.� They say �by nature.�
Prabhupada: Whatever it� Whatever it may be. You have to accept some superior authority. That means you are not independent. You are under the control of the superior authority.
Harikesa: Time. Time is�
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be. You call by any name. That is another thing.
Pusta Krsna: These bodies are a reaction, effect, isn�t it? These bodies are an effect.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: So then death also must be some effect.
Prabhupada: So who has made this law, cause and effect? Some way or other, you have to accept that you are not independent.
Harikesa: Their arguments are so foolish, it�s hard to think of them.
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore mudha, they have been described. Na mam duskrtino mudhah [Bg. 7.15]. They are being kicked, punished; still, he says, �Oh, I don�t care for anybody.� I kick on your face. �Yes, I don�t care for you.� Like that. This is their argument.
Pusta Krsna: Ahankara-vimudhatma.
Cyavana: But because everything in this world appears to be disordered, it is difficult to accept�
Prabhupada: The world is not in disorder.
Cyavana: But it appears to be.
Brahmananda: Man makes order.
Prabhupada: Man makes order?
Pusta Krsna: Is� Your idea is that he conceives of the order. But actually there is no order, but he�
Prabhupada: When there is cyclone, man can stop?
Cyavana: For example this beach is all disorder. There is so much rubbish there. There is no order to this world. So how can there be any higher authority�
Prabhupada: So what you can do?
Cyavana: I cannot accept that there is a higher authority when everything is simply disorganized. These trees are broken, the�
Prabhupada: It is organized. It is organized. For thousands of years the sea is there, the beach is there. So sea cannot come here. This is order.
Cyavana: But the line of the beach is all crooked and�
Prabhupada: That is your imperfect vision. It is perfect.
Harikesa: People think, �Straight and corners, that is very nice. If everything has corners��
Prabhupada: That is your concoction.
Cyavana: Like a building, straight.
Prabhupada: Just like if you think that �Why keep to the left? Why not right?� You think like that, but that is ordered by the superior. You can think in your own way.
Cyavana: Because it appears that way to my senses, therefore I think that�
Prabhupada: Therefore it is authority. You can think like anything, but it will not be done according to your desire. It will be done by the authority�s desire. That is authority. You cannot dictate the authority that �You do like this.� That is not authority. You think any way; that is your business. But authority will do in their own way.
Harikesa: Actually, nobody cares about philosophy. Nobody follows philosophy.
Prabhupada: No. He cares for death. That is the ultimate philosophy, that they have to die. Say, �I don�t care for this order. I�ll not die.� Then your disobedience is all right. But you have to die. You have to become old man. How you can disobey?
Cyavana: So if death is imminent, then I should simply try to enjoy myself as long as I can.
Prabhupada: Enjoy. What is that enjoyment if you are going to die?
Harikesa: It�s so incredible how crazy everything is.
Brahmananda: Well, at least before I die, I can get as much pleasure as I can.
Prabhupada: Nobody can, if he is actually afraid of death. Suppose if you are given a beautiful woman,�Enjoy, and as soon as you come out I will shoot you.� (laughter) Will you enjoy?
Pusta Krsna: That�s a great example. That example would change the world.
Prabhupada: That is the difference between a man of knowledge and a fool. Man of knowledge, that is that he knows he has to die. �But I don�t wish to die. So what is the solution?� That is man of knowledge.
Harikesa: Sometimes they say �Well, why worry about death? It�s gotta happen anyway, so why should we worry?�
Prabhupada: But you� You� Because you are rascal number one, you don�t worry, but that is the psychology. This is the example.
Harikesa: But I want to enjoy right now.
Prabhupada: Suppose that you enjoy this woman for few minutes. Then you will be shot down. Then will you be able to enjoy?
Brahmananda: Actually they do that. When some man is to be executed in the prison they give him one woman the night before as a special consolation.
Pusta Krsna: They finish him off completely. They ruin him. (laughing)
Cyavana: But death is very far away from me. I am only thirty years old. I don�t have to worry about death.
Prabhupada: What is the guarantee that you will live thirty-one years? What is the guarantee that you will live thirty-one years? There is no guarantee.
Cyavana: But everyone else around me appears to be having fun and enjoying.
Pusta Krsna: They can use this argument though, Prabhupada. I�ve heard it before, that �So God has placed us in this world. Okay, there is God, and He has placed us in this world, and He has created the world also, and He has made these things very, very enjoyable, sex life, and this and that. So why not enjoy if God has created it?�
Prabhupada: That is foolishness. That is foolishness. It is not enjoyable. That is� If a criminal says, �The prisonhouse is very enjoyable,� it is like that.
Cyavana: But all the travel brochures and the advertisements, they say it�s nice here. All the advertising and travel brochures, they say it is nice.
Prabhupada: Let him say, but prisonhouse, is it nice? That is foolishness.
Cyavana: But everyone else says it�s nice.
Prabhupada: Everyone? I don�t say.
Cyavana: You are the only one who says it is not nice.
Prabhupada: I am the only intelligent person. (laughter) That�s a fact. Mudho nabhijanati.
Pusta Krsna: Krsna says, antavat tu phalam tesam tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam: �Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary.� So does this mean that these less intelligent people who are simply interested in temporary benefit� Even they don�t worship demigods per se, it could be anyone.
Prabhupada: Yes. Demigods� Yes. Just like one who is trying to get some good service. So they are worshiping this boss, that boss. That is also demigod, because without flattering some boss he cannot get some good job; without flattering the voters he cannot get the ministership. That is demigod worship. They have to flatter somebody. Why this Ram Gulab has gone to�? He has to flatter there. This is going on. The big bosses in the United Nation, they are demigods, supposed to be. He thinks, �If I flatter them, then I will be able to keep my position.� But he does not think that this position will be lost after some years. Tad bhavaty alpa-medhasam. He has forgotten his eternal life, Krsna, and he is flattering these demigods. That�s all. What he will gain? He will die. That�s all. At the time of death what these United Nation leaders will do?
Cyavana: But we can improve the standard for future generations, for our children.
Prabhupada: First of all you improve your own condition; then think of future generation. You are going to hell and thinking of future generation. You are going to die, and you are thinking of future generation. Who is your future generation? That is another foolishness. This is asuric civilization.
Asuric civilization.
Cyavana: Hope against hope.
Prabhupada: Hope, that is also foolishness. Apart from future generation, you have got sons. So you are taking very great care. Does it mean that his life is guaranteed? So what you can do? You cannot do anything for your present generation, what to speak of future generation. You cannot do. Suppose your son is sick. As father, you have given first-class medicine, first-class physician. Does it guarantee that he will live? Then what can you do? Is it in your control that your son will live because you have given good physician, good medicine? Is it guarantee that your son will live? Then what can you do? You cannot do anything for your present generation, and you are thinking of future generation, which you do not know, who is your future generation. At the present moment you know this is your generation, you cannot do anything, and you are thinking of future generation. How foolish you are.
Cyavana: Well, we may have to accept the laws of nature, but at least we can�
Prabhupada: And therefore, what is the meaning of taking care of future generation or this generation?
Cyavana: At least we can make it comfortable in this world.
Prabhupada: No. That is not possible. You have already given good medicine, good physician. And why he is dying? You cannot do anything. That is your position. You may try to do, but that is futile. Ultimate is different.
Cyavana: So by giving him medicine, maybe I can give him a better chance�
Prabhupada: �Maybe� can be, but it is not guaranteed. You cannot do anything.
Cyavana: But at least I should try.
Prabhupada: Try. Foolishly you try whatever you like. That is another thing. But it is not under your control. You can try. That is your� Of course, you must try as a dutiful father, but you should know that you cannot take any guarantee or do anything, good or bad. That you have already said, �the destiny.� That is prominent. That is prominent, not you.
Cyavana: The tendency of the humans�
Prabhupada: You can do the best to train your child to become Krsna conscious. That is in your power. That you can do. That is the best service, not anything else. That is not possible. If you become yourself Krsna conscious, and if you try to make your son Krsna conscious, that you can do. And that is the duty, real duty. Other things, you cannot do anything. That is destiny. And if you make him Krsna conscious, then destiny can also be changed. This is the concession of Krsna consciousness. Destiny also can be changed. Karmani nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhajam [Bs. 5.54]. One who comes to Krsna consciousness, his karma is also changed.
Cyavana: Is that karma dovetailed?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Cyavana: It�s still there.
Prabhupada: Still can be changed by bhakti. Just like one man is condemned to death. Nobody can change it, but the king can change it. Only by the mercy of king he can be saved, not otherwise. Even the judge who has punished him, he cannot do it. Whatever is ordered, there is order. He cannot change it. Similarly, if you become devotee, then your destiny can be changed. A devotee never is anxious to change his destiny. That is devotee�s�
Pusta Krsna: Like Maharaja Pariksit.
Cyavana: But if his destiny takes him away from Krsna, then he is not�
Prabhupada: That is Krsna�s desire. If Krsna desires, He can do anything. So a devotee does not interfere with Krsna�s desire.
Pusta Krsna: We know that Krsna desires everyone to become Krsna conscious.
Prabhupada: Oh, that is� Krsna says. That is His desire. Sarva-dharman pa�, mam ekam saranam
vraja. That is Krsna�s desire.
Pusta Krsna: So Krsna is not causing everyone to forget Him.
Prabhupada: No. Krsna�s desire is open to everyone. We don�t accept it. That is our obstinacy.
Krsna says �There is soul.� We do not say. �No, there is no soul.� This is our position. Krsna says, �Within this body there is soul,� and we don�t accept. We�ll argue. This is our position. He is giving direct instruction, �Yes, there is soul,� but we don�t accept. Disobedient.
Cyavana: But if Krsna knows that we will suffer in this material world, why does He let us go away from Him? Why doesn�t He keep us there?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Cyavana: If Krsna knows that we will suffer here in this material world if we come here, why does He let us go?
Prabhupada: Why the thief goes to the prisonhouse? He knows that �If I go to the prisonhouse, I will be put into distress.�
Cyavana: But the government is not strong enough to force him not to go, not to steal.
Prabhupada: Why government is not strong enough?
Cyavana: The government doesn�t have the power to control everyone. But Krsna can�
Prabhupada: No. Even if he�s strong enough, you disobey. The government has made so many things that you cannot steal, the iron chest, but still, you are clever enough that you do.
Pusta Krsna: The independence is there. Sometimes people ask, Prabhupada, that if the spiritual world is anandamayo �bhyasat, full of bliss, then how is it that, somehow or another, we�ve left that blissful situation and come into this hellish�
Prabhupada: This argument we have talked many times. Everyone knows that out of prisonhouse freedom is there. Why he goes to the prisonhouse? Everyone knows it. Why does he go to the prisonhouse?
Pusta Krsna: Not by choice. He is placed there.
Cyavana: Krsna is the supreme controller. If He wanted to check us from going there, He could check us from going into the prison, from offending.
Prabhupada: No. Krsna has given you independence. So you are�. By mentality, you have to suffer. Suppose if a child wants to do something, play, if you check it, check it, then he will go mad. Just like mother Yasoda was showing stick to Krsna, and when Krsna became so much afraid, he (she) became immediately anxious: �Oh, Krsna has too much anxiety. He may fall sick.� So immediately throw away. So this is father-mother�s affection.
Cyavana: So actually it is Krsna�s mercy that He allows us to come here, free ourselves from�
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. He has given you little freedom. He doesn�t want to take your freedom.
Harikesa: You gave two examples in Los Angeles about the master, big master, like president of DuPont walking his dog. The president of DuPont is walking his dog in Central Park. The dog makes him go this way and this way and this way. And you said we are just passing stool and urine in the material world, and Krsna is just letting us run here and there.
Prabhupada: Yes. Anumanta. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said, anumanta, upadrasta.
Cyavana: In the Caitanya-caritamrta in one of your purports you gave the example of Paramatma being compared to when there is a circus in a village the government sends one inspector to watch over the activities. Then, when the circus goes, he is no longer there. Could you explain it? (pause)
Pusta Krsna: Prabhupada, if Krsna is the reservoir of pleasure, then what does He need us for? If Krsna is all blissful, then what� We�re so, it seems, incapable of pleasing Krsna. He is so magnanimous. What does He need us for?
Prabhupada: He does not ask for Himself. For you. If you come to Krsna and enjoy with Him, that is your good. He is self-sufficient. He doesn�t require.
Pusta Krsna: Sometimes, Prabhupada, when they see your Bhagavad-gita, they say, �Oh, it is too big for me to read.� They don�t know that the purport�. They�ve never read.
Prabhupada: Therefore I say that bring them, let them chant and dance and take prasadam. That, everyone will hear, agree.
Harikesa: One who does that, he is preaching? One who arranges for chanting and dancing and taking prasadam, that is as good as preaching?
Prabhupada: Yes. Sravanam, kirtanam, arcanam,anything.
Harikesa: These festival programs are very important.
Prabhupada: (pause) You have to spend or waste gallons of blood before you can convert a person to Krsna consciousness. It is so difficult task.
Cyavana: You have to spend?
Prabhupada: Gallons of blood, waste.
Cyavana: In what way?
Prabhupada: By talking with him, with the rascal and foolish. You tax your brain and spoil your energy, blood.
Harikesa: Spend so much food.
Cyavana: So we should do that.
Prabhupada: Unless you are not a preacher. You should be prepared. Yes. They cuts, sacrifices life, what to speak of wasting blood. Wasting life. This is preacher. Then he is recognized by Krsna: �He has done so much for Me.�
Pusta Krsna: Krsna will give more and more energy.
Prabhupada: He is going to die for Krsna, and therefore he is recognized. Na ca tasman manusyesu kascin me priya-krttamah [Bg. 18.69]. You become immediately very dear to Krsna. Your business is how to become very intimate to Krsna. That will be served by preaching.
Cyavana: Would you like to hear this verse?
na ca tasman manusyesu
kascin me priya-krttamah
bhavita na ca me tasmad
anyah priyataro bhuvi
[Bg. 18.69]
�There is no servant in this world more dear to Me than he, nor will there ever be one more dear.�
Prabhupada: Who? Ya idam para�
Pusta Krsna: �For one who explains the supreme secret to the devotees, devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to me.�
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: Sometimes� I�ve had one person. He complained, �Why is there no purport for this verse, �There is no servant in this world more dear to Me than he, nor will there ever be one more dear�?�
Prabhupada: No purport?
Pusta Krsna: Yes. They have mentioned that there is no purport for this verse.
Prabhupada: It is already explained. Anyone who is preaching�
Harikesa: That verse is self-effulgent.
Pusta Krsna: Yes.
Harikesa: You are the purport.
Pusta Krsna: Simply people are trying to find out ways that they don�t have to surrender to perfect knowledge. They can go on enjoying in the material world.
Prabhupada: Wanted� (indistinct) A little� (indistinct)
Harikesa: I think you should preach every breakfast. Your appetite is very good.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Harikesa: Every breakfast you should preach. Then your appetite will be very good.
Prabhupada: No, appetite or no appetite, I preach. (laughter) I do not preach for increasing appetite.
Devotee 2: Do you want this?
Prabhupada: Hm? Yes. What is that?
Brahmananda: This is lavana-bhaskara [ayur-vedic medicine for increasing appetite].
Prabhupada: Lavana-bhaskara, it is? No. Yes. Yesterday night what did I take?
Harikesa: At night you�re supposed to take tripolin(?), no?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: At night Prabhupada takes tripolin(?). After meals he takes this Bhaskara-lavana.
Prahupada: But�
Brahmananda: At night you took this one?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: No, at night he�s supposed to take tripolin.
Prabhupada: You follow. (end)
[Room Conversation w/ Srila Prabhupada�October 4, 1975, Mauritius]
Einige m�gen behaupten, das Chanten der Nityananda- und Gauranga-Mantrarajas sei nur ein Ausweichman�ver um die zehn Vergehen beim Chanten des Hare Krischna Mahamantras zu vermeiden. Stattdessen sollte man versuchen, die zehn Vergehen zu vermeiden und nur das Hare Krischna Mahamantra chanten. Diese kennen die wirkliche Wahrheit nicht. Es ist gesunder Menschenverstand, zu erkennen, dass etwas Schlechtes zu vermeiden, sehr gut ist. Was soll daran nicht gut sein? Wenn man den zehn Vergehen ausweichen kann, kann man sofort reine Liebe zu Gauranga-Krischna entwickeln, was das Ziel von unseren Leben ist. Die Nityananda- und Gauranga-Mantrarajas geben uns nicht nur eine Ausweichm�glichkeit f�r die zehn Vergehen, sondern vernichten sie und belohnen uns innert k�rzester Zeit mit reiner Liebe zu Gott und bef�higen uns, das reine Hare Krischna Mahmantra zu chanten. Also is es grosse Intelligenz und kein Ausweichman�ver, die Nityananda- und Gauranga-Mantrarajas zusammen mit dem Hare Krischna Mahamantra zu chanten.
Andere behaupten, dass man durch das Chanten der Nityananda- und Gauranga-Mantrarajas auf Abwege geratet. Ja, ohne das sie es wissen, spricht Shuddha Sarasvati durch ihren Mund und sie verherrlicht die Nityananda- und Gauranga-Mantrarajas. Durch das Chanten der Nityananda- und Gauranga-Mantrarajas, wird man f�r immer von folgendem abgelenkt:
(1)vom Kreislauf von Geburt und Tod in den 8,4 millionen Lebensformen
(2)vom Durst nach materiellem Genuss
(3)von der Unwissenheit des materiellen K�rpers
(4)von der Verwirrung von empirischem Wissen (Jnana) und Karma u.s.w.
Was ist falsch daran, wenn man vom Schlechten abgelenkt wird? Man sollte sehr froh dar�ber sein. Und wenn jemand behauptet, man werde durch das Chanten der Nityananda- und Gauranga-Mantrarajas vom spirituellen Leben abgelenkt, ist das ganz und gar im Widerspruch zu den offenbarten Schriften, und das schlimmste Vergehen gegen die barmherzigsten Namen von Gott.
Was meinst du, wurden Nityananda und Srila Shivananda Sena durch das immerw�hrende Chanten des Namens von Gauranga abgelenkt? Es ist das schlimmste Verbrechen und Gewalt gegen die Seele, jemand vom Chanten der Nityananda- und Gauranga-Mantrarajas zusammen mit dem Hare Krischna Mahamantra abzuhalten. Im Sri Ciatanya Bhagavata sagt Gauranga Selbst, dass, wenn ein Guru oder sogar Brahma oder Shiva (was sie nat�rlich nie tun werden) etwas gegen die Schriften sagen w�rde oder jemanden vom Chanten der anerkannten Namen von Gott abhalten w�rde, dann w�ren Seine Anweisungen das Resultat von Verwirrung und Unwissenheit �ber Gauranga Naam Tattva und sollten von einem intelligenten und echten Sch�ler zur�ckgewiesen werden, zu seinem eigenen und dem Segen des Gurus.
Einige mutmassen f�lschlicherweise, dass jemand die Nityananda- und Gauranga-Mantrarajas zusammen mit dem Hare Krischna Mahamantra nur chanten sollte, wenn sein Guru kein Mahabhagavata ist, sonst sei das nicht n�tig. Aber sie vergessen, dass Srila Shivananda Sena und Srila Balarama Dasa, welches die h�chsten Mahabhagavatas sind, immerfort die Namen von Gauranga und Nityananda gechantet haben. Wer ist h�her als Nityananda Selbst? Er chantet nicht nur immer das Gaura Gopala Mantra, sondern unterweist auch alle Lebewesen, das Gauranga Mantraraja zu chanten. Wollen sie etwa behaupten, Nityananda sei kein Mahabhagavata? Das ist ganz und gar absurd. Tats�chlich ist es die Qualifikation eines echten Mahabhagavata Gurus, dass er in den Fussstapfen von Nityananda wandelt, und so wird er nie unterscheiden zwischen dem Chanten der Nityananda- und Gauranga-Mantrarajas und dem Hare Krischna Mahamantra und keinesfalls seine Sch�ler und Anh�nger davon abhalten, die barmherzigsten Namen von Nityananda und Gauranga zusammen mit dem Hare Krischna Mahamantra zu chanten. Wie auch Srila Prabhupada klar aussagte:
�Deshalb ist jemand, der das Mantra � Gauranga� und jemand, der die Namen von Radha und Krischna chantet auf der selben Stufe� (Srila Prabhupada im CC Antya-Lila 2.31 Erl�uterung) und �Nitai-Gauranga und Hare Krischna, da gibt es keinen Unterschied. Nitai-Gauranga ist auch gut. Was er auch immer passend findet, das lasst ihn chanten.� (Srila Prabhupadas Gespr�ch mit dem Yoga-Studenten �ber Japa am 14.M�rz 1975 im Iran) und auch in einem Gespr�ch am 14. August 1971 in London:
Prabhupada: �Nein. Wir empfehlen �chante den heiligen Namen von Gott�. Wenn du also den heiligen Namen von Gott hast, dann chante Ihn.�
Prabhupada: �Wie auch immer, wenn jemand Allah oder Jesus Christus chantet, haben wir nichts dagegen. Wir sagen nicht, dass er damit aufh�ren sollte. Wir sagen, dass man den heiligen Namen von Gott chanten sollte. Wenn es ein Name von Gott ist, dann chante.�
(13) NUR DER KR�FTIGSTE SAME DES NAMENS VON GAURANGA WIRD IN DER W�STE DEINES HERZENS KEIMEN K�NNEN
Im Sri Caitanya-candramrita Vers 53, erl�utert Srila Prabodhananda Sarasvati die hervorragende Wichtigkeit des Namens von Gauranga:
ha hanta citta-bhuvi me paramosarayam,
sad-bhakti-kalpa-latikankurita katham syat;
hrdy ekam eva param asvasaniyam asti,
Chaitanya-nama-kalayan na kadapi socyah.
�Oh weh! Wie soll die Saat des bedingungslosen hingebungsvollen Dienstes zu Krischna in der h�chst unfruchtbaren und kahlen W�ste meines Herzens aufkeimen? In meinem Herzen gibt es nur einen Trost, und das ist das Chanten des Namens von Gauranga. Dieses Chanten wird ein f�r alle Mal meinem Wehklagen ein Ende setzen und wird in meinem Herzen Wunder wirken, indem es mit Gottesliebe weich und fruchtbar gemacht wird.�
(14) DAS NITYANANDA MANTRA RUFT SELBST IN EINER S�NDIGEN PERSON SOFORT TR�NEN UND EKSTASE DER REINEN LIEBE ZU GOTT HERVOR
Caitanya-caritamrita Adi-lila 8.23:
�nityananda� balite haya krsna-premodaya;
aulaya sakala anga asru-ganga vaya.
�Nur durch das Chanten vom Nityananda Mantraraja erweckt man seine schlummernde Liebe zu Krischna. Dann werden alle Gliedmassen des K�rpers angeregt durch die Ekstase der Gottesliebe, und Tr�nen str�men aus den Augen wie die Fluten des Ganges.�
(15) JEDER DER DEN NAMEN �NITYANANDA� NUR EINMAL H�RT WIRD KRISCHNA SICHERLICH ERREICHEN
Caitanya-bhagavata, Adi-khanda 9.385:
nityananda-hena bhakta sunile sravane;
avasya paibe krsnacandra sei jane.
Shripada Madhavendera Puri f�hrt an:
�Wenn jemand nur einmal den Namen �Nityananda� h�rt, wird er sicherlich die Lotusf�sse von Krischnacandra erreichen, ungeachtet von allen anderen Erw�gungen.�
Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!
Dear Swami Gaurangapada and assembled devotees, please accept my obiesances.
Here is the slideshow from Melbourne temple of Gaura Purnima celebrations.
y.s. Nava.
We are happy to announce on this day of celebrating the Appearance of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, the posting of a large Audio Archive of more than 900 files of His Divine Grace Srila Sridhar Maharaja, spanning the years of 1973-1987. The files are available on our website for streaming or download. You'll find the link here at our homepage: http://scsmathnj.com.
Following is an introduction to the archives. It is my prayer that this service will be accepted by the devotees who will become happy, diving deep into this ocean of nectar.
I pray this finds you well in all respects.
Yours,
Gokulananda das
http://www.scsmathnj.com
All Glories To Sri Guru And Gauranga
shri-svarupa-raya-rupa-jiva-bhava-sambharam
varna-dharma-nirvishesa-sarvaloka-nistaram
shri-sarasvati-priyan ca bhakti-sundarashrayam
shridharam namami bhakti-rakshakam jagad-gurum
Dear devotees and friends,
I offer my humble dandavat pranams to you all in remembrance of my Divine Master.
In August of 1981 His Divine Grace Srila Sridhar Maharaja spoke the following:
"...to take tapes from me and to preach, to supply it to the future, [generations] of course the idea is good."
"I did not go to the West but in my last days Prabhupada [Srila Saraswati Thakura] is wresting something what he deposited with me, to take it for the West. I can't deny, as much as I can do, I shall do."
Now more than 27 years have passed since Srila Sirdhar Maharaja expressed his desire that future generations have access to his recorded discourses.
Previously we have offered from our website those recordings that were already available in some form to the public. But there are many more recordings that, until now were not available even to the disciples and grand disciples of His Divine Grace.
With each passing year, the devotees' desire to gain access to the full spiritual wealth of Srila Sridhar Maharaja's discourses increases. The future generations to which Srila Sridhar Maharaja referred seem especially eager not only to hear the words of their parama Guru but to acquire a deep appreciation for their meaning which they in turn enthusiastically impart to others.
It is our desire to promote such eagerness and enthusiasm by offering access to a large collection of Srila Sridhar Maharaja's recordings. Of course in so doing all those of a similar mind will delight in hearing these recordings regardless of their generational placement.
In the interest of propriety, some portions of the original recordings have been omitted from this public offering. I had not intended to do any editing but one of my Godbrothers strongly advised me to do so. I therefore went through each of the recordings applying my own judgment as to what should be omitted. Practically the only parts removed were those Srila Sridhar Maharaja himself indicated should not be made public.
As to what should be made available, I relied primarily on what I could understand of Srila Sridhar Maharaja's own desire to make his opinions known. He exhorted us to follow a progressive path to truth, "Thesis, antithesis and synthesis. In this method the whole thing is progressing." He encouraged us to push our beliefs into the marketplace of ideas to either be accepted or challenged in the light of day. And, he provided the example for us to follow.
Srila Govinda Maharaja also expressed his opinion that Srila Sridhar Maharaja wanted to reveal the inner wealth he collected from Srila Saraswati Thakur for the benefit of all, even though some objected to his doing so:
"Then, Guru Maharaja clarified many slokas. yena mam upayanti te, [Guru] Maharaja told there, upa[pati], this word, showing paramour love, it is very much a thinking conception, deeply thinking conception. What was given by Guru Maharaja, everybody will not understand that. But, by the mercy of Guru Maharaja, if they will try to understand, they can understand something. And Guru Maharaja told Sripad Sagar Maharaja, "You can add it [meaning of upayanti] in the English edition of Srimad Bhagavad Gita." I did not give it in the Bengali edition. I was a little afraid to give it. And, at that time, Sripad Jajavar Maharaja influenced me too much, "You give what is there, [the direct meaning] that way. But, you don't try to expose inside matter."
I was also thinking, "I am publishing for the general public. Then, it will be good not to give too much. Who wants to know, he will come to Guru Maharaja, or to me. What I know, what I got from Guru Maharaja, I shall explain it."
But later, Guru Maharaja was very merciful. That is, He gave gayatry-artha-viniryasam, gita-gudhartha-gauravam [Pranati-dasakam: 5] [1] . What was not given by other acharyas before, that explanation of gayatri mantram, that was also given by Guru Maharaja.
I was always giving some objection. That is, I was afraid. It is a hidden matter. But Guru Maharaja is trying to expose it, and nobody will understand. They will take it some other way and use it for their own mundane benefit.
Then, one day, I told Guru Maharaja, "You are giving gayatri explanation in front of the Western devotees. They do not know anything, actually, and you are explaining it." But, Guru Maharaja's mood was, "I do not know Western or Eastern. I want to explain something and they have come to me for hearing. I am thinking they are sincere seekers and they are trying to know something from me. If I do not explain the gayatri mantram, who will explain it? Nobody can do it, actually. And it will stay in a hidden position. From the time of Veda Vyasa, up to today, nobody has explained it. But many know it. Veda Vyasa knows, Rupa-Sanatan know, Jiva Goswami knows, everybody knows, but nobody has given it. That is, I want to give it. What offense will come, that will come. And, if you want to hide it, you can try to hide it, but I shall give." That was his mood, in his last days. Guru Maharaja was not very, not very cautious. If anybody asked anything, he is giving answer. That was his way". -Morning lecture, Miami, Florida, 7/17/93 [1] Pranati-dasakam Verse 5, found in Sermons of the Guardian of Devotion Vol 1
Some may think we have gone too far, revealed too much or proceeded recklessly. I am prepared to defend my editing decisions except where I may have overlooked some particular section. I welcome the reader/listener to contact me in the event you disagree or believe I including something that should not have been. Before doing so, please read my article "Editing the Acharya" where I explain my rationale in more detail.
We cannot estimate the extent of the contribution of His Holiness Sripada Bhakti Sudhira Goswami Maharaja who has devoted himself for many years to collecting, maintaining and preserving these recordings. Without his unswerving dedication to this project we can hardly imagine how it would otherwise have come about. The recordings themselves were made by several persons present at the Math including Sriman Swarupananda Prabhu and others
Sriman Gokulananda Prabhu provided much of the inspiration to me to make these recordings available through our website. In addition, he has logged countless hours doing behind the scenes work needed to provide all the links and code for downloading and streaming the files which number over 900. I could not have proceeded without his dedicated help
These recordings are presented here for the serious student of Srila Sridhar Maharaja. They are an archive of original, raw recordings. The audio quality is sometimes very poor and requires serious attention to understand his words. At other times the quality is good and readily understood. I would advise the serious student to start at the beginning and go through each recording in the order they were made much as one is advised to go through the Srimad Bhagavatam. Jumping immediately to controversial portions may tend to promote misunderstanding rather than the desired result.
It is our hope that making these recordings available will encourage further exploration of this mine of pure spiritual ore. The veins run deep and long and we expect many generations will find new veins branching off from the main ones and running in directions previously unknown and unexpected.
To further this exploration we plan in the near future to construct a forum for devotees to share their indexes and transcripts of the tapes. While I have many quarrels with modern science, I find one of their methods very useful, the sharing of information so that each may benefit from the research of the others.
By making research public it invites inspection, correction and improvement. Our hope is to one day see a complete searchable database of Srila Sridhar Maharaja's words. We see this as one of the initial steps in that process.
"So I am unwilling and you have come and forced. Extract[ed] from me. If you find anything good, what is akin to your master's gift, if you find that what you have already got from your Spiritual Master, similar things are to be found here, then of course you may come and try to snatch it and distribute to the world. You have got that right." -Srila Sridhar Maharaja
Praying to the lotus feet of Bhakti Sundar Govinda Deva-Goswami Maharaja, that he accept us as meager assistants in his service to Om Vishnupada Srila Bhakti Rakshaka Sridhar Deva-Goswami Maharaja, we present these recordings for the satisfaction of the devotees in the line of Sri Chaitanya Saraswati on the day of the 524th. celebration of the auspicious advent of Sri Gauranga Sundara, Sri Gaura-Purnima, March 11, 2008.
yare dekha, tare kaha �krishna'-upadesha
amara ajnaya guru hana tara' ei desha
Swami B.K. Giri
Dear devotees,
Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krishna! Please accept my respectful obeisances!
Before writing this letter, I was first informed that the inquirer who had replied earlier had gone after a Mayavadi who is a disciple of some famous impersonalist in South India. The mayavadis have certainly changed a lot in the 20th-21st century. Now they have imported sahajiya tendencies to make their impersonalism cloaked under a cover of love. While thinking on the matter, certain realizations were made known to me by the mercy of Hadai Prabhu and I tried replying.
Dear _____,
Our friend _____ certainly got plenty of things correct but a closer look doesn't reveal things to be so correct behind what is seen to the eye.
1) The material world is perfect : True, it is perfect. But a perfect prison for souls opposed to love of Godhead. So in that sense it is not perfect because it is not suited for our habitat. We are happy only in the spiritual world.
2) He's realised the oneness but not the difference : Acintya Bheda-Abheda Tattva. Since everything is an expansion of the Lord, it is correct to say that the Lord is everything, including the jiva souls and the material universe. But yet while everything is one with the Lord, still everything is not the Lord in all respects. There are differences too. The thing is everything is part and parcel of the Lord, so it is not different. Yet the part is never equal to the whole in all respects.
Therefore when someone says that the feeling of warmth and wind and satisfaction is the Lord and thereby he experiences the Lord, he is right, but not totally right. This conception only realises the Lord in his external feature, maya-shakti. It is nowhere near the all inclusive personal experience of the Lord at the highest level of pure devotion. Dylan's realisation is good, but it is incomplete and from a distance, if we could use the words.
Where the mayavadis go wrong is that they identify this incomplete stage of realisation as the complete experience itself. The feeling of warmth and satisfaction is also the Lord expanded through his material feature, but it is not completely the Lord in all respects of sat-cit-ananda vigraha. That feeling cannot reciprocate love, or happiness, or ecstatic bhava or prema, and it cannot even give mukti (liberation). Therefore while everyone experiences the Lord in everything, everywhere and at all times, still the devotees' experience is superior and higher to those of others.
Perfect is fine, but beyond perfect is more perfect, most perfect, super perfect, ultra perfect, etc... No words left....
The devotees' realisation of the Lord is all inclusive of all other concepts and realisations. One trillion times trillion times all other realisations including impersonal brahman liberation and realisation of the self (atma) can never match one pinhead of experience from bhakti.
3) A correction to the devotee: We were never in the eternal service in the spiritual world. It is true that the souls are in the material world because they are against the Lord, but this is described as beginingless (anadi), it is true that the souls have fallen because of envy. But this envy is there and where it came from is beyond space, time and speculation.
When the Lord wanted to enjoy pastimes, he became two and expanded as Radha Krishna. And when Radha Krishna became one, they became Gauranga. This is how we say, but can we actually answer the question, "When did that happen?" We cannot. We use words because of the limitations of language, limited by space and time. But the pastimes of the Lord are eternal and they are beyond all spatial and temporal aspects. Actually it is more correct to say that the Lord continuously wants to enjoy and so he continuously remains two and the two are also eternally merged as one. This is anadi.
So similarly the souls come from the marginal position between the spiritual and material worlds. Those who are eternally averse stay in the material world since eternity and those who are favourable are nitya-siddhas. When a person attains Goloka, he is technically a sadhaka siddha, but in nature he is nitya siddha and it is as though he is eternally there in Goloka and was never elsewhere. This is beyond mind and words.
We say our orignal position was etc..etc and that because we envied etc..etc. But this problem comes because of trying to express in words what cannot be expressed by words. It is not to be taken literally. Just think, how can anyone fall from Goloka because of envy and delusion? It is so mayavadi and such a big offense. It is like saying that someday our guru may fall to our level and we have to liberate him -- don't even endorse it. I'm not harsh, but its like that. I don't even want to think about it.
4) The process of chanting the names is both the means and the end itself. Chanting to get out of the material world is only a shadow (namabhasa) but the real name is both the means and the end to endless love of the Lord. Although you mentioned that later, _____ doesn't seem to have noticed that though. Chanting is the method to remember, but it is also the remembrance itself!
5) He understands that at the highest stage, there is not more need for liberation or transcending or striving and everything is all there. Very good. But he contradicts himself elsewhere when he asks us what's the need of chanting with all rules and regulations. You see that itself indicates a fundamental problem that is not very obvious to the eye immediately. But it has serious implications. I will elaborate shortly.
6) Realising Lord Gauranga Krishna isn't a seeking process, neither is chanting or hearing or etc... Who said anything about transcending the Lord anyway? Not you Venkat. The mayavadis equate realisation with seeking or speculation, but realising is actually our life.
7) Getting out of the material world : Not a matter of physical distance, but the aspect of removing the ignorance and impersonalism within us. Actually the spiritual world is always with us and we are there, but we deny that and so get caught in illusion.
8) This person that your friend has mentioned is not only an impersonalist but also a sahajiya in my opinion. As a matter of fact, I should say that sahajiya and mayavada are two interchangeable terms representing impersonalism in two forms. Though this man is not like a material prakrta sahajiya who is mad after women wealth etc.....(he is a strict impersonalist.....) his theory that the attaining the Lord through a process is inferior and that God must be attained spontaneously without any endeavour is bogus speculation. Actually the original sahajiyas proposed this artificial theory of 'easy and natural' way to realise the Lord. That is the meaning of the word sahajiya -- it means spontaneous or easy. No one can stop acting, to be acting one has to be dead!
The Mayavadis are very fond of using this to blaspheme the sublimely natural and easiest process of sravanam and kirtanam, which they see as unnecessary endeavour. Krishna loves his devotees they say and He is happy when they are happy and enjoying life. Dylan asks why should we see this world as a place for suffering. Its true at the highest level there isn't anything material in our vision anymore, but such statements are uttered with a motive for enjoying the material world as spiritual by aritificial imitation and imaginary speculations of pure devotional realisations. The concept of God as the father is simply used by the children to enjoy God and not serve God. We may be happy spiritually though we still remain in the material world to ordinary eyes, but what about others? Even the Mayavadi comes to a fatal flaw in talking about love because love necessary means plural. If the mayavadis believed their own words, there is no need to do any preaching. Why do they preach this idea to their devoted followers then? They give this reason, "What about others?" So they contradict their own statements that everything is one and everything is God and ultimately fail miserably.
You see, this is the problem between Vaisnava and sahajiya. Mayavadis talk about love and happiness, but in all that there is selfishness mixed with their understanding or talk of love. Its they who are doing the enjoying. This one little flaw makes all the difference between them. Although their idea of love sounds identical to ours, please obseve for yourself that it is only an imitation and an imaginary experience. They imagine their way through everything and those are accepted as real love and experiences. Do you understand now why and what prabhu wrote in his newsletter intro this week?
The sahajiyas artifically try to do raganuga (spontaneous in loving attraction) bhakti by completly bypassing vaidhi bhakti (bhakti with rules) and then claiming vaidhi bhakti as inferior and calling it a seeking process. Bhaktivinode Thakur has clearly pointed out in Jaiva Dharma that vaidhi bhakti is also eternal. At a higher stage the rules of the scriptures are superseded by the rules of love, but it is only by the process of vaidhi bhakti that raganuga bhakti itself develops, not otherwise. Raganuga bhakti develops only when vaidhi bhakti reaches perfection, but it must not be artificially attempted. You see the raga path comes on its own!.... 
. The Sahajiyas are contradicting themselves as they are actually "trying for raganuga bhakti when they claim they are being spontaneous". Vadhi bhakti is eternal and does not end after attaining the Raga path, but how to explain that is so much beyond words.....
They want to jump in to the highest principle at once and then they artificially condemn everything else as inferior materially. Spiritual superiority and inferiority are different from material comparisions. Its not vaidhi bhakti is inferior, but that raganuaga bhakti is superior. Not that Narayana is less perfect, but that Gauranga Krishna is more perfect. Its like that. It isn't a > b means b < a principle.
Actually there is a very intimate relationship between them that will tell you why vaidhi bhakti is eternal and not just a process, but to go so far is beyond my qualification. It also tells you how the different types of bhakti are both one bhakti, and yet they are different and how the Raga patha is superior. But the kamala has closed the door at this point. I cannot write further, but please understand that vaidhi bhakti is no seeking process but it is also the means and the end, although it appears like a process that leads to another end that looks different. It isn't so. At this point the language has reached its logical limit and writing anything further will only begin to contradict what was written earlier. It is impossible to properly describe acintya bheda abheda completely by words. Sometimes things are interchangeable, sometimes they are not. Logic can only approach either end of the tattva, either oneness or difference, but never both together.
Logically, this appears to be a contradiction. But it�s a fact and the proof of this pudding lies in the eating. Look at the damage the sahajiya opinion has done to pure devotion. The spontaneous jnanis simply become either impersonalists or they become materially addicted to women and in the end they all become asampradayis, etc..etc. The cult of Hita Harivamsa preaches this philosophy and it is endorsed by those who attempt the raga path not knowing that what they should attempt is vaidhi bhakti and let prema come on its own. So who's trying to attain God through a speculative, manufactured process?
These things are all demonaic and they are against the injunctions of the scriptures. "...kalau tat hari kirtanat" (SB 12.3.52) is what the scripture says. No one can just try for raganuga bhakti and get it. One must make some effort. The part of bhakti that is attempted is vaidhi bhakti and the path that comes on its own is raganuga. But without making the proper attempt, that which is spontaneous cannot come. Ultimately no one can avoid doing anything because one has to be eternally dead otherwise. We have to try because it�s a matter of free will and where there is a choice we have to take some action from our side. But we should try the right way. We must not try for that which cannot be attempted for. So trying and not trying are meant for different circumstances. They must never get mixed up.
This misconception is so subtle that only a spiritual eye can catch it, it was actually dictated to me what to write now. I had some doubts before, but it all came in a millisecond and everything was clear for a few seconds. I can't remember all, but now I am sure of what is written over here. Mayavadis talking of love and etc... is totally mental speculation at its finest. In the end they will add a line, "Impersonalism is the end". What blasphemy!
8) The smartas emphasise smaranam (remembering) over kirtana or sravana because of their own innate envy towards the movement of Mahaprabhu. So they don't even know the simple fact that kirtanam includes all other bhakti processes and it is impossible to attain perfect smaranam without kirtanam! Sometimes those who emphasise other processes like smaranam do so because they don't know what remembrance is and they think kirtana to be cheap stuff. Their remembrance is mental, while kirtana is spiritual remembrance.
9) Impersonalism has two dimensions. One form manifests itself directly as those who deny the form, name and the loving, blissful qualities of the Lord. This is obvious and is known as mayavada. But the other form is very subtle and cannot be distinguished so easily. This is impersonalism that appears as a carbon copy of personalism, but is ultimately caught in the act of imitation because its selfish in nature. This is called sahajiya. Real devotion is fully selfless.
10) This is the problem with people. People want to jump in to the highest at once. One has to go through kindergarten to reach Ph.D in spiritual matters. When we discuss class I principles, they immediately want to show their 'greatness' and they talk all class XII principles, but along the way they lose out the opportunity to get into class XII. You were quite right in discussing the basic things about material world and reaching the Lord. It's right when prabhu says it, but it isn't right when we say such things. Such high things do not look good in our mouth. We should only talk about what we are qualified to talk
Although I wrote about _____'s good points, still as I kept writing some thing came from above and I realised it was all mental imitation. All glories to the Lord full of transcendental mellows and spiritual knowledge! Thank you Hadai prabhu, for having been such a loving guru to guide me so mercifully despite all and I mean all my wretched disqualifications.
Your most worthless wretched servant,
Srinath
Dear Vaisnavas,
Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krishna! My humble pranams!
This is the last part of that letter I sent him. I have not written this out of dogma to condemn every faith or philosophy as inferior, but it's the truth and I have seen and experienced it. I accept those portions of other faiths and philosophies that are bonafide as per pure sanatana dharma, but I must also reject the misconceptions and the danger of allowing them to bias our mind towards the pure truth.
PS : If my son were to go on the wrong path and I chastise him out of love, is it my fault? Sure I don't like to see my son in a prison, and I am sure he is not happy to be in a prison either. But in the name of giving him happiness can I allow him to fall down? He won't be happy that way, neither will I. So if the father chastises the son, it is not to give suffering, but to give happiness. That is the purpose. That's where your friend's argument falls flat. He asks how the father is so unkind to give his son a stone or a serpent when he asks for food. But the truth is that we are actually asking for poisonous serpents. Which father is so unkind to his son that he'll allow him to take the snake and die? Actually the Lord is trying to give us food for the soul when we ask for poison. It's actually the other way round.
That argument comes from Jesus's sermon on the mount where he tells them that there is no need to worry about getting food or water on the path of love as God is merciful (I read it you see). But there Jesus himself adds that first we should seek the kingdom of God before all this is available to us. But it is misinterpreted by those who want to make mischief. Tell him that. You can see all these deviations in their interpretations of those statements. I personally see sahajiya contaminations even within the doctrine of love taught in other religions. I only wonder....
You see, it may be difficult to believe, but those religions originally borrowed all these things from the Vedas. Therefore we find descriptions of Krishna and love of Godhead even there as Mahaprabhu himself revealed. However history shows that these religions as they are today in the 21st century are products of mental speculation right from their very origin. Each of these religions came from the one before them and so when we speak of one we are also speaking of the others. Those religions are incomplete. People without proper qualifications tried to fill up the gaps by speculation and the result was that everything became a disaster. As Lord Gauranga Himself also mentioned in the Chaitanya Charitamrta, the compilers of those scriptures didn't understand and freely also incorporated their personal opinion in 90% of the places. Some people argue that since everything God made is good, alcohol is good too. (He made arsenic and cyanide too, but who takes that?)
On the whole these scriptures are full of all the 4 defects (mistakes, illusion, cheating, limitations). They are also full of contradictions too. There is no need to mention all those contradictions. In the end, such religions have done more harm to the real religion of Lord Gauranga as they have promoted and nourished the growth of atheism far more than Charles Darwin and all the atheistic scientists before and behind him. These uprisings have defined the course of history for the last 1200 years. I know so many people who became atheists because they felt cheated by the speculative theories. As a matter of fact the atheistic theories are all based upon that which is taught by these faiths. It's a pity as many of those people could have become devotees. People may have become more entangled in sense gratification out of technology, but actually the mayavadis are far more dangerous than the atheists. The scientists have actually given us all the tools we need for the ultimate preaching movement!
The ultimate purpose of the followers of those religions today is to wait for D-day when they will become the Lords of the world or they believe they'll go to heaven where they can get higher levels of sense enjoyment. So this whole idea of love is simply emotional brainwashing as it is an aritifical imitation of the original Vedic teachings. If you don't believe me, just see the religious programmes on TV. That's how all these doctrines are so successful in cheating the people in Kali Yuga. At some point of time, actually tickets were being sold to go to heaven! In other words, these faiths are also different manifestations of mayavadism. These faiths were originally delivered at the end of a sword, but then when the populace rebelled, they are now being delivered cloaked in sahajiyaism and mayavadism. Though there are still places where the swords rule.
So the material world is a prison meant for rectification. It is not a place for us to enjoy as the Christians and materialists think. God is not our order supplier, "Give me happiness." In the long term, the material world is created for our happiness, but that happiness is attained by realizing our mistake and going to Godhead. It is a tool that serves the purpose and not the end itself. It is the means towards the goal of making the conditioned jivas happy by getting out of illusion, not falling into it further. So it is indirectly there to make us happy by turning us towards the Lord, but it should not be taken as the direct means to make us happy. This wrong philosophy that God created the material world for our sense gratification is very dangerous.
Those who indeed want to embrace the real religion of Gauranga Mahaprabhu must be like the swan that only takes the milk out of an emulsion. We must be prepared to understand that our earlier ideas and beliefs need not be necessarily all correct. Our acaryas publicly only accepted the good points of other philosophies and encouraged that. However they were outright blunt when it came to the bad issues and came down upon the misconceptions part with a hammer. We must never hang on to a faith that we were conditioned with from material experience when it comes to accepting the truth. We must keep our mind clear so that our own opinions do not interfere or distort the message which we hear from acaryas. We do not want our personal beliefs to create a bias in our minds and try to interpret the truth based on what we think is right. In doing so if there is a necessity to abandon our earlier system of beliefs, then be it so!
I may have been a follower of some faith before coming here to pure bhakti. But after seeing the pure teachings of Lord Gauranga, I have seen how many misconceptions have been spread by so many people all over the world. So now I only accept those portions of other faiths which are in accordance with the real truth. As for the rest, we must reject the misconceptions outright when we are given the opportunity so that we can progress spiritually. Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krishna!
Daasos'mi,
Srinath
Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!
Dear Srinath, I really appreciated reading your post. Thx.
y.s. Nava.
