Respected achiever,
I am immensely pleased and also wonders tucked by your gracious answers to many complicated questions and issues.
I pray kriya bababji to bless you with all that is required to achieve accomplishment........ the ultimate solution for all questions and issues.
Narasimha swamy
please visit my web (if interested)
http://agasthiaherbal.tripod.com
http://healingfromtheroots.blogspot.com
Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krishna! i came across the following talk of Shrila Shridhara Maharaja, of which i thought it might have connection with this topic.
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Devotee: Is there any spiritual difference when the disciple is in the physical presence of his Guru and when he is many miles apart?
Srila Sridhar Maharaj: We can get benefit only through sraddha (sublime faith). The position of Guru should not be considered as mundane, it should not be identified with his mundane appearance. Only through sraddha are we able to approach him, from any distance. Still of course, by physical vicinity we can get the chance of hearing from him, and of witnessing many practical dealings that may help us on our path with the knowledge of Vaisnava-sadhachar, what should be the conduct of a Vaisnava.
In this way we can have some sort of conception about these things, but sraddha must be there. Sraddha, or respectable faith must be there in either case � physical closeness or distance is not the question. In the lower stage, physical nearness has more efficacy. By his movements, his talks, and his instructions we are to learn the spiritual etiquette, and many spiritual ideals which may also become clear in his company. So physical vicinity will be useful in the lower stage, but sraddha must be there otherwise we may commit offence.
Physical nearness devoid of faith may be the cause of offences against Gurudev. Sometimes the senior Godbrothers may be very helpful in our dealings with Gurudev when we are beginners. Sri Gurudev�s conduct may not always be very clear or helpful for us, so in that case some senior Godbrother may come to help us and explain his movements and do away with any difference we may see in him.
isvaranam vachah satyam tathaivacharitam kvachit
tesam yat svavacho yuktam buddhimams tat samacharet
(Bhagavatam: 10.33.31) �The instructions of the great personages are always true, but their conduct and their practices may not always be useful to the beginners. So the sober person will accept those practices that are backed by his words, understanding that in his higher stage he may do something which may not be useful to those of a lower stage.
He has such spiritual power that what may be seen as a defect in the beginner, cannot harm him in any way. Therefore the fair minded beginners will accept those practices which are in consonance with his instructions, as being useful to their progress.� We should not imitate but rather we should. Not anukaran (imitation) but anusaran (to follow in the footsteps). We must understand the difference.
So faith or sraddha is the first thing necessary for us; then whether we are near or far from our spiritual guide, we can have his connection. Connection in the proper line, that is the vital point; the proper plane which is independent of gross or subtle animation. The energizing plane that stimulates our enquiry about our won inner welfare, that is part and parcel of the quest. Brahma-jijnasa � the quest for the plane of understanding...
Dear Swamiji,
Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krishna! Thank you for the corrections. I will take a permanent note of that. I will just change the second point to the abode of the Lord minus the marginal portion of the brahmajyothi.
Regarding the other point, I copy pasted from the Krishna Kathamrta Bindu vol #187 as it is since it is published by disciples of Gour Govinda Swami. However after you made your point I checked up the verses for myself.
In Jiva Gosvami's Bhakti Sandarbha, this story appears from the Visnudharmottara Purana. ".....In course of time, the female mouse also died and a wonderful divine airplane came and took her to the world of Vishnu. The cat also eventually met with death, and, ascending an excellent airplane surrounded by celestial nymphs, accompanied by hosts of Vidyadharas, and being praised with auspicious cries of victory, he also went to the world of Vishnu. After enjoying many pleasures there for hundreds of millions of years, that former cat took birth on the earth as a king named Sudharman...."
That is the original translation. This "material Vaikunta" appears in an Appendix in the bottom of the magazine page without any reference to any scriptural quote so I suspect that someone else has added this thing. To be sure, I checked up the Srimad Bhagavatam by Prabhupada and I find this in 8.5.5
vaikuṇṭhaḥ kalpito yena
loko loka-namaskṛtaḥ
ramayā prārthyamānena
devyā tat-priya-kāmyayā
SYNONYMS
vaikuṇṭhaḥ � a Vaikuṇṭha planet; kalpitaḥ � was constructed; yena � by whom; lokaḥ � planet; loka-namaskṛtaḥ � worshiped by all people; ramayā � by Ramā, the goddess of fortune; prārthyamānena � being so requested; devyā � by the goddess; tat � her; priya-kāmyayā � just to please.
TRANSLATION
Just to please the goddess of fortune, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Vaikuṇṭha, at her request, created another Vaikuṇṭha planet, which is worshiped by everyone.
PURPORT
Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura remarks here that this Vaikuṇṭha planet, like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, appears and is said to be born or created, but both Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Vaikuṇṭha eternally exist beyond the material universes, which are enveloped by eight kinds of coverings. As described in the Second Canto, Lord Brahmā saw Vaikuṇṭha before the creation of the universe. Vīrarāghava Ācārya mentions that this Vaikuṇṭha is within the universe. It is situated above the mountain known as Lokāloka. This planet is worshiped by everyone.
No mention that this Vaikunta is made of material elements. On the contrary it is compared to the appearance of the Srimad Bhagavatam, indicating it is eternal and spiritual and only manifested like the Lord's outpost in this world.
For this, only the editors of the Krishna Kathamrta Bindu can give a proper answer to where they got that term from.
About that is all I can verify. I am sorry for not having checked up my source. KK bindu has been a perfect magazine with all quotes of our acaryas so I had no second thoughts about putting it up.
My apologies,
Srinath
Respected Swamiji,
Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krishna! Jaya Guru Parampara!
In the Linga, Shiva and Skanda Puranas, there is a pastime of the Lord which I cannot understand properly. The popular version that is often narrated with variations in the puranans is that Brahma aruges with Lord Visnu on their greatness. Then Lord Shiva appears in the form of his linga which then expands unlimitedly throughout the universe.
In the Skanda Purana it is said that the linga represents the Union of Shiva with Parvati and that Lord Shiva worshipped in the form of the principle organ of procreation is the form of the Linga. This linga expanded unlimitedly and Brahma and Visnu tried to find its head and foot. Visnu took the form of Varaha while Brahma went up on his swan and lied using false witness that he had seen the head of the linga. Lord Visnu goes down the linga for a thousand years before saying that the linga has no limit and he could not find it.
It goes on to say that the glories of Lord Shiva were realised by this incident and the day he appeared in the form of the linga came to be known as Shivaratri on which Lord Shiva is worshipped.
I cannot understand the pastime at all because why did Lord Visnu behave like that, arguing and fighting with Brahma and then being defeated by Lord Shiva and then accepting the Superior position of Lord Shiva in the Shaiva Purana?. How can I reconcile this one with the incident where the same Lord Shiva acts as the greatest Vaisnava (Srimad Bhagavatam). Here the same Lord Shiva who manifested an unlimited form was bewildered by Mohini murti and he realised Vishnu's transcendental position.
I understand by reading the Brahma Samhita that Lord Shiva is the expansion of the Lord directly involved in contact with material nature and by the union of Sambhu with Maya, Mayadevi creates successively the mundane ego (ahańkāra), the five mundane elements (bhūtas) viz., space etc., their attributes (tan-mātras) and the limited senses of the conditioned soul (jīva).
Since Lord Shiva is an expansion of Lord Visnu, is that the reason why he can manifest an unlimited form?
Doubtful,
Srinath
Nityaananda or Balaraama Prema includes all rasas because Lord Nityaananda Balaraama can award us any of the five primary relationships with Lord Krishna according to our constitutional position. Here the word "Balarama Prema" means that Lord Gauranga and the devotees became immersed in exclusively thinking of Lord Nityaananda Balaraama and His divine attributes and pastimes. Nityaananda Balaraama Prema is the ultimate goal of the sadhana for all souls who are in Sakhya Bhaava or the mood of friendship and also it is the life and soul of all the others souls who desire to attain Lord Gaura Krishna in other relationships.
Daaso'smi, BR Sadhu Swami Gaurangapada.
Nityananad! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!
Dear Swami Gaurangapada, please accept my humble obiesances.
Srinath: I understand it now
Swami: A devotee can have all different types of feelings for Lord Gauranga, who is more beautiful than millions of Cupids, how can anyone stop that? But if that devotee expects that Lord Gaura will reciprocate with him or her in that conjugal way like Lord Krishna does with the Gopies by embracing them in intimate conjugal relationships or tries to see the pure relationship of Shri Shri Gaura Gadadhara is such a distorted way, then that becomes a deviation known as Gauranga Nagari or Nadiya Nagari.
Thank you for posting the above transcript. I was reading Nityananda Gauranga Daily Pastimes Book last week, and noticed the exquisite descriptions of Sri Gauranga by Sril Krishnadasa. And was wondering what bhava he was feeling toward Lord Gauranga.
Shrila Krishnadasa (Disciple of Shrila Visvanatha Chakravartipada):
At the end of the night Lord Gauranga lies upon a nice bed under the spell of sleep. There is no person alive who could behold such splendor and retain his life-breath.
At the end of the night Gauranga-chanda is in His sleeping chamber. His limbs twinkle as cupid churns His mind. The golden bedstead is inlaid with solid coral and is decorated with pillows covered with pure white cloth. The nicely-colored silk is secured by cords in four corners and the jeweled tassels emit pinkish rays in all directions. Tall,strong golden posts grace the four corners supporting the expansive canopy hanging overhead.
Swinging from all edges are long strands of very tiny pearls which appear like the celestial river flowing down from the heavens. The bedstead appears just like the nicely-formed pear of Mt.Kailasa While he splendrous bolsters appear like balls of fresh cream.
Covering the mattress is pure white silk in the middle of which slumbers Gauranga Dvija-mani the jewel of the twice-born brahmanas. His long limbs put to shame the luster of molten gold while overwhelmed with the moods of lazy lounging He rolled over until He was lying on His stomach. The upward lines pf His beautilul tilak shine with the splendor of sandalwood paste .
Around His face the dots of kunkum and musk are enchanting. Jewelled earrings rest against His glistening cheeks while the arch of His eyebrows conquers the arrows of Cupid. Attempting to find a suitable comparison for the splendor of Gauranga's closed eyes even the Creator with all his skills of supremely refined craftsmanship is baffled to the utmost extent of his imagination.
I can understand that Kamadeva has vanished in fear of the crooked arch of Gauranga's eyebrows; becoming bodiless, Cupid is therefore called Ananga.
Who has created this form of Lord Gauranga's? It is like Cupid's net for ensnaring the innocent deer that are the hearts of chaste girls. His two lotuslike eyes are closed in repose. His thick black eyelashes are motionless. His splendidly-colored lips defeat the hue of bimba-fruits while His slightly smiling mouth enraptures the universe.
His broad chest is beautified by numerous necklaces and His arms extending to His knees are very muscular. His arms are adorned with bracelets of nine jewels and His divine form is beautified with thick patches of sandalwood paste. His hips are wrapped with very fine white cloth while His upper body is partially covered with a splendrous cloth the border of which is woven in ornate golden flowers. His thin brahmana thread is visible there, supremely pure and white. The palms of His hands are reddish like blooming water-lotuses and the sparkling auras of His finger-rings destroy darkness all around.
The nicely-constructed golden temple is pervaded with happiness. On the four sides are four bejeweled terraces with gazebos. On top of the temple are flags and golden jugs and strands of pearls so large that they look like full moons. Both sides of the temple are beautified by eight crystal pillars supporting rows of swan formed of silver.
In four directions are four gates that are studded with jewels and inlaid here and there with emerald. The golden doors shine with their solid coral bolts and crystal cornices glitter like rows of candles. Ranks of huge mirrors are fixed on the walls
Swami: I have explained that the nitya-siddha female residents of the eternal Navadvipa do feel intense attraction for Lord Gaura and Lord Gaura satisfies their only in their heart. He does not enact the nagara pastime like Lord Krishna and thus does not dance with them.
Srinath: oh ok, because there was something on Vamsidasa Babaji
Srinath: The article said he was in Nadiya Nagari bhava so I had a doubt
Srinath: Whether Nadiya Nagari was the same as Gauranga Nagari
Srinath: swamiji, what was his actual relationship?
Srinath: But Siddhanta Sarasvati said that Gauranga nagaris were asampradayis
Srinath: didn't he.....?
Swami: Yes
Srinath: So Nadiya Nagari is a fake bhava then?
Srinath: ok
Srinath: I understand it now
Swami: A devotee can have all different types of feelings for Lord Gauranga, who is more beautiful than millions of Cupids, how can anyone stop that? But if that devotee expects that Lord Gaura will reciprocate with him or her in that conjugal way like Lord Krishna does with the Gopies by embracing them in intimate conjugal relationships or tries to see the pure relationship of Shri Shri Gaura Gadadhara is such a distorted way, then that becomes a deviation known as Gauranga Nagari or Nadiya Nagari.
Srinath: yes of course
Srinath: I am happy to see many more are taking it up
Srinath: I found that entry in Nitaai Veda
Swami: Jaya
Swami: So is it answered
Srinath: Well yes, it was an article of Vamsidasa Babaji Maharaja
Srinath: And the author had claimed he was in Nadiya Nagari bhava
Swami: The source of that article also needs to be checked
Swami: Sometimes those who want to practice Gaura Nagari bhava
Srinath: Use that as an excuse
Srinath: Actually Vamsidasa Babaji was in Vatsalya bhava right Swamiji?
Swami: They use the Acharyas to authenticate their own wrong Bhavas
Srinath: But what was the acarya's actual bhava?
Swami: That is an initimate question
Swami: He would always talk to Gopala
Srinath: ah! Then I see
Swami: So it is Vatsalya mixed with some Sakhya
Srinath: But why I asked is because a certain article had to be verified by Hadai prabhu and me and I wanted to confirm what I thought was doubtful
Swami: Yes, it is wrong
Swami: Shrila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada accept Namshidasa Babaji as a Paramhansa so he cannot possess even a tinge of Gaura Nagari Bhava.
Swami: I wanted to write an article on Mantra Siddhi
Srinath: oh ok
Srinath: An article
Swami: Mantra Siddhi is see the Mantri with spiritual vision when we chant the Mantra
Srinath: ok
Srinath: Meaning we see the Lord
Srinath: and all those realisations
Swami: Yes
Swami: the degrees of seeing Him also different
Swami: Some can see His form, some can see His form and qualities, some can see His form, qualities, pastimes, some can see His form, qualities, pastimes, abode and some can see His form, qualities, pastimes, abode and associates, and some after realizing all this while chanting can factually enter into those pastimes while Naama Smarana. So there are different levels of Mantra Siddhi.
Srinath: Wow!
Swami: The last one is the most rare, there are only a very few handful of devotees on this planet at any point of time on that stage.
This topics is pure nectar. I thank Raph, Damodara Svarupa dasa and Suhrit for sharing such wonderful realizations regarding Nityaananda Gauraanga Naama and Lord Nityaananda Raama. Nityaananda! Gauraanga! Hare Krishna!
Daaso'smi, BR Sadhu Swami Gaurangapada.
Hadai wrote: Dear Guruji and all assembled devotees of this holy forum, today I fall at your lotus feet and beg you for your forgiveness for all the offenses I have committed at your feet. When I have, in any way, ever hurt your beautiful heart and tender lotus feet I beg you to please forgive me for that grave offence. Please accept me as your humble servant and never hesitate to address the offenses I may commit at your feet so I know, with your mercy, how to become a better devotee.
I also pledge today to all of you that I will forgive any offense, conscious or sub-conscious, you might have committed, commit, or are going to commit to me. I will forgive you by default because I do not wish to stand between you and the Lord in any unfavorable manner. My intention is to help, support and encourage your eternal loving relationship with Lord Nityananda, Lord Gauranga and with Sri-Sri Radha Govinda and to learn from your experiences.
Both of the above paragraphs are perfect words which we should all pray for. Thank you Hadai.
On the occasion of Swamiji's Vyasa puja I have only one think to ask for and if you believe I deserve to ask something, then please show your mercy and grant me geniune humility without any trace of cheating and hypocrisy. I only ask for this one thing from all of you -- please let me remain humbler and humbler still.
This is perfect benediction to ask for. Shrila Haridasa Thakura, Shrila Prahlada Maharaja, etc. have all asked for this benediction to always remain humble in whatever circumstances we are placed into by Lord Gaura Krishna. Thank you Srinath.
Daaso'smi, BR Sadhu Swami Gaurangapada.
Nityaananda! Gauraanga! Hare Krishna! Thank you Srinath for your illuminating essay. It is very lucid and most of your points are perfect. I fully agree with you in almost everything except the two points below:
2)When it is said that no one and nothing falls from Vaikunta, here Vaikunta or spiritual world refers to only the abode of the Lord minus the brahmajyothi.
The point is well taken but there can be just a little correction. Brahmajyoti is the effulgence from Lord Gaura Krishna's divine body so it's source is directly from Goloka. So Brahmajyoti also pervades the space in which the spiritual planets are floating. The tatashtha (marginal) line which is the original place of all the non-nitya-siddha souls, is the part of the Brahmajyoti between the material and spiritual worlds which mostly does not contain any spiritual planets.
That planet is sometimes referred to as Prapanchika Vaikuntha [�prapancika" means �consisting of the five material elements�]. There are many descriptions of persons attaining that place and then returning to this material world.
Before discussing the point about the Puranic quotes further, I am specifically interested in knowing who has written these above two sentences about this type of Vaikuntha. Are they Shrila Jiva Goswami's original words? Or a commentary by a later devotee?
Daaso'smi, BR Sadhu Swami Gaurangapada.
Nityaananda! Gauraanga! Hare Krishna! Thank you Srinath. I agree with you on the 'original books' thing but http://www.prabhupadabooks.com seems nice so far with all of Shrila Prabhupada's writings and no criticizm and blasphemy of any one. Even the Pre-1978 books of Shrila Prabhupada are ultimately Shrila Prabhupada's writings so if someone prefers to present them without criticizing anyone or without minimizing the post-1978 books, there is no harm, it is nectar. And I don't see any such criticism on Prabhupadabooks.com as of now. It contains only the writings of Shrila Prabhupada. Of course, as you said, we may not be able to say the same about other websites and must be careful to not read or hear blasphemy etc.
Daaso'smi, BR Sadhu Swami Gaurangapada.
Dear Vaisnavas,
Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krishna! Please accept my respectful obeisances!
One thing I would like to warn everyone about these 'original books' business and other stories being spread on the internet. They are big myths being spread by some undesirable elements. I was obsessed with that once and it was later cleared up by Swamiji, who was himself in the BBT and who knows about how the books were made and also by Hadai prabhu, who is quite familiar with this and warned me about their wrong association.
I know some posts with references to other sites. I am not being rude or anything, but I want to inform the devotees on our sacred sanga body about it. They preach nonsensical ideas of philosophy in the name of Vaisnava Dharma and they indulge in all sorts of blasphemy against Vaisnavas and acaryas, both past and present and spread fanatic sectarian hate politics everywhere and various types of dangerous rumours worldwide.
I am aware of it because about back I was associated with some devotees whose true identity I realised sometime before coming to this sanga. Since then I have abandoned that association. But they have managed to come to the city where I live not too far away from my residence and so I am aware of how degrading such association is.
Let me tell you from my personal experience with them that these people are great blasphemers of Nityananda Gauranga Naama and those who chant Nityananda Gauranga. It is very bad association. To go into the details of these asampradayas any further would be so contaminating and blasphemous that I will not explain beyond this. I hope by now you are aware of who they are -- I don't even want to mention the name for purity's sake and also in obedience to the forum rules.
I would recommend sites like vedabase.net or vanipedia.org for Prabhupada's writings instead. These sites are authentic sources. and they have all of Srila Prabhupada's writings together along with many other things not there in the other site mentioned in the eariler post.
So in the interest of our devotional before you post anything up on the forum or elsewhere, my advice is to please check the article's sources for their authenticity. Even if they write something that looks proper, according to the advice of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati in Chaitanya Bhagavata, such words are still very contaminating and degrading for our spiritual progress if they are contaminated with the offensive and blasphemous mentality towards other devotees. Reading those words brings us into that negative association.
Internet is a place where people can hide behind the cover of computers and write anything without the readers knowing who wrote what. But nevertheless when we find something new on the internet, we should first take care to verify its credentials and authenticity before going further for our own spiritual benefit and those of others. So please be careful.
In your service,
Srinath
