Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

Dear Vaisnavas,

      Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krishna! Please accept my respectful obeisances! I just want to make a few points about the discussion going on. I was moved by Bhaktatommy's experience on how he came to devotion. We should realise how fortunate we are.

       Different devotees have posted up very nice experiences and realisations as part of this thread. But there are a few places where certain unwanted tendencies are beginning to creep in. I have asked many questions to the readers and I humbly request all of you to consider them once and judge.

      1. The same doubt can manifest itself in many ways again and again, thanks to logic, can it not? I have a feeling that this is becoming repetitive even though it gets cleared every time. So far that's what I see. A fundamental doubt is persisting despite repeated discussion.

      2. Logical study of scriptures is useless. Speculation is a colossal waste of time and energy.  A topic is being made increasingly and unnecessarily confusing by presenting the same doubt in more complicated ways

      3. Analysing scriptural words with speculative logic and thinking that's all in all is simply too incomplete. Scratching the surface, but not knowing much. Devotional service is understanding and practice, not hypothesis and speculation.

     4. Past offences getting burnt is all done when one chants Nityananda Gauranga just once. Unlimited sins and offenses in unlimited births are destroyed. Then why are you still offending? The offensive propensity is the root cause, the offences are only secondary. Haven't we noticed that most of the time we commit offences only because we want to? Propensity works only when we allow it to.

      5. A devotee chanting Nityananda Gauranga must never say "Something else forcing me to offend...". This is only passing the buck on to other things. Its just trying to say, "Its not my fault." The Padma Purana injunction is perfectly correct as nearly all offenses are committed because we want to. The temptations are due to the offensive mentality, but it is WE who decide. Accepting our own mistake is the first step to humility.  There is no one else to blame.

     6. Why is the speculation persisting in spite of repeated scriptural advice to avoid it? Let me state here that the tendency to ask all sorts of trick questions is just a subconscious desire to challenge the power of the mantrarajas.

      7. The so called 'intellectual' tendency flies in the face of geniune humility. As long as we remain full of ourselves in our own petty little speculation and logic, we don't give room for the Lord to enter.

      8. We think that if we know the cause we can find the cure, my friends. But you yourself admitted that knowing the cause doesn't make a difference in our fallen situation. But when we already have the cure, why move heaven and earth to find the cause? Are we interested in the cure or the cause? Are we aware of how complicated the web of reactions is?

      9. Knowing very well that certain things are too complicated for the mind and intelligence,  there is still speculation. Is it necessary? Why try to speculate on something that can't be understood by speculation? What are we going to do by untangling the web of actions and reactions, which is infintely complicated? 

      10.  The cure for stopping and burning all offenses is dedicated chanting and CHANTING and service. No amount of speculative study can ever tell you how to get rid of them. You already know the answer, but you're searching for the key knowing its in your hand. Why? Are you indulging in arguments with your own mind? Its quite common for many thinkers...isn't it?

      11. Better to live in the present and see what can be done to improve our chanting and our service. The past is now gone. Its enough to have learnt one's lesson and look ahead. I say this because a friend argued with me, "Unless we discuss our past, how will we serve the Lord?" But what will happen is that we only keep wondering "Why, what if, where, how, maybe, i think,....." and forget the Lord!!!

Before we ask a question, let us first think whether it will help myself and others in our devotional service and bring us closer to the Lord. Let us ask ourselves, "What am I going to do knowing this. Will it make a difference?"

It is not correct to use the devotees as a book, or the guru as an encyclopedia to satisfy our mind. As long as we remain full of ourselves in our own petty little speculation and logic, we don't give room for the Lord to enter into our life and we delay our progress more and more. Don't be preoccupied by imaginary doubts that aren't there. It will take you away from the Lord. Quit the speculation and you will find a whole new life awaiting you.

From my experiences,

Srinath

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Sridhara Kolavaca - Gauranga Naam Jaap

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!

Jaya Gauranga Naam! Dearest Sridhara Kolavaca, may meditation upon Sri Gauranga's Holy Name grant me residence at your lotus feet!

So that Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu may come and grant me  fair trade also, stealing all my sense of proprietorship and replacing that with His merciful glance!

Dearest Associate of the Lord, please hear my plea!

May that prayer manifest as I chant your Lordships Holy Name, constantly! Jaya Gauranga Naam!

y.s.

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Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

Dear Nava Prabhu,

Nityananda ! Gauranga ! Hare Krishna !

Thank you much Nava Prabhu. Your posts along with other devotees posts here is a wonderful opportunity to use all my doubts into pieces. I athis forum as a tool to break m sure we will know each other much better when I return.

Tommy wrote : It is more important to stop offenses than to burn past offenses

This is a good point. Padma Purana does say to avoid offenses while chanting the mahamantra, it does not say to burn the past offenses. However Bhaktivinod Thakur stresses a lot on mountains of offenses we have done in the past to be an obstacle in our chanting for pure love of God. When we combine the 2 logics may be it means if we have unburnt past offenses of our previous births then we will not be able to avoid offenses. The way our past sins force us to continue sinning but if our past sins are burnt then we will stop sinning. Though I am not too sure about this as it is pure speculation but this is a good point to discuss further.

Sincerely,
Mihir.

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Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!

....though I know very well that material enjoyments is pure distress disguised in the form of enjoyments. by mihir

Thank you for pointing this out Mihir, an excellent point. I asked one person sometime ago why did God make this world? His response was 'God is kind and made this world so we can enjoy!'

In a way he gave a half correct answer, because God is kind and wishes us to learn. But this philosophy that life is purely for sense enjoyment is really limited vision and incorrect. I sometimes wonder if in the west, surrounded by opulence, rarely seeing extreme poverty and other suffering, that it is such a blinder  we miss the point that this world is a prison house. Unless we have encountered some personal suffering (which is life changing), we may just see this world as a place to work, gain wealth, have successful relations and enjoy. But unfortuntely that way is destined to fail, because the temporary will never satisfy fully, and so on.

Listening to Srila Bhaktivinoda teach Sri Caitanya's precepts, that this world is a prison house for those who wish to forget God - some may perceive this as negative spirituality. But I ponder how much more is life fulfilled when we have relations in God realization. We are most fortunate to have seen the truth of the matter, and to be moving toward a life of simplicity and love. As we grow older the fruit will become more and more evident.

By the way Mihir, I have really appreciated reading your posts in the last few days, and getting to know you a little bit more. Thank you.

y.s. Nava.
 

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Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!

please accept my simple obeisances

It is more important to stop offenses than to burn past offenses.
Nothing is regrettable and nothing is wasted everything is as it should be otherwise it would not be so.
everything is serving to reveal the truth to us.  we can be grateful for this and for everything then we will find happiness.  this lifetime is like a strong river and we either swim upstream and progress or we backslide down there is no staying . We must concentrate on what we have influence over like avoiding offenses.  When we concern ourselves with matters out of our influence, then our influence shrinks.  Before you burn this mountain , stand on it and reach a higher taste.  You can feel lucky you are coming to Krsna on your free will without such a misery motivating you.  The first time i entered a temple I was homeless and starving child of 17 who was very miserable and lonely.  I went because someone I met told me we could have a free meal.  There is a video "right now" you can find here http://video.iskcondesiretree.info/WMV/

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Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!

please accept my simple obeisances

thoughts that help chanting mood:

this lifetime is taking place in the moment before death.
success in life is remembering krsna at time of death
nothing in material manifestation is nice for very long
our desire has caused us to emerge in realm of birth, death and disease.
our desire may liberate us from this realm when it is sincere and fixed on serving the Lord
emergence in this realm or a hellish planet is not desireable
"O Lord  I have no appetite for bewilderment and madness"
"O Lord even in liberated bliss I reject disease and death"
"O Lord I wish only to emerge in your abode as nothing else is desireable"
i must remember krsna always I must remember Krsna at time of death


aspiring service
bhaktatommy

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Re: Gaura-Narasimha

Nityananda ! Gauranga ! Hare Krishna !

Bhakta Matus wrote : when i feel being in some danger, i remember the Pastime of Lord Gauranga protecting His Dear Lord Nityananda by invoking His Sudarshana Chakra, when He was attacked by Jagai and Madhai and i pray for His protection.

When I feel in danger I remember chapter 3 of Madhya Khanda of Chaitanya Bhagavata

' Text 43
"I have descended to this world to begin the sankirtana movement. I will stay among the devotees. I will kill the demons.
Text 44
"I will not tolerate an attack on My servant. Even if the attacker is My son, I will kill him.
Text 45
"If he touches my servant, I will cut My own son into pieces. I do not speak a lie. O Murari Gupta, please listen with all your heart.

Text 46
"When I lifted up the earth, her wom� touched Me.
Text 47
"In this way a powerful son named Naraka was born. I taught My son everything about religion.
Text 48
"My son became a great king. He protected the demigods, brahmanas, gurus, and devotees.
Text 49
"Still, because of past bad karma he fell into bad association. He associated with King Bana. Then he took pleasure in tormenting the devotees.
Text 50
"I will not tolerate an attack on My servants. To protect My servants, I cut My son into pieces..
Text 51
"Birth after birth you have served Me. Therefore I have told all this to you '

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Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

Respected Swamiji,

          Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krishna! Dandavat Pranams!

          Could it be possible for you to shift my previous post Srinath 29.9.2008 at 02:54:21 (about 4-5 posts previous) about logical analysis and time for purification to the end of the discussion thread. I wanted to write a reply but it has come prior to the question I was trying to answer.

Daaso'smi,

Srinath

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Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!

I was chanting minimum 16-16-64 and other days 64-64-64. And I learnt one thing - we can mechanically dry chant till the cows come home

I have free days, so I would chant all day, and give katha in computer environment and then finish about 10pm.  Chanting at maybe two hour intervals. There was very minimal feeling, but it was not fruitless. There were many lessons learnt. There is no loss at any attempt at devotional service.

Now I chant minimum 64-64 (and then as many Maha-mantras as I can do with no set quota). And eventually I will build the Maha-mantras gradually. The jaap is deeply satisfying to my soul. I have strong faith in these two Holy Names.

It is essential to do my Nityananda Gauranga Mantrarajas everyday (64 of each), in due course they will purify me to be able to increase with feeling. Slow and steady win the race.

y.s.

 

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Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

Dear Nava Prabhu,

Nityananda ! Gauranga ! Hare Krishna !

Thank you for your guidance. Can you pls tell me the 100000 names that you chanted for 8 months was of NGN or HKMM ?

If it was for NGN then I will get a heart attack because I am chanting only 10368 names of NGN i.e 48 rounds of N and 48 rounds of G which takes me approximately 2 hrs. Since I have practice of chanting Om Namah Shivaya for 2 hrs in the past, chanting 10368 names of NGN is easy but anything more than that will certainly be very difficult.

Sincerely,
Mihir.

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Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

Dear Tommy Prabhu,

Nityananda ! Gauranga ! Hare Krishna !

Tommy wrote : when we are sufficiently desperate to end this nightmare ,without our most trusted well wisher the complete master Krsna Gauranga Nitaai,   Krsna becomes happy because we can sincerely chant

Thank you for your guidance prabhu. However if a person is full of offenses then it is very difficult for him to get this desire to end the nightmare and till he does not get the desire to end the nightmare how will he burn his offenses ?

A good example of this is myself. Though theoritically I know how blissful liberation and love of God is but still due to the power of the material energy I am only interested in material enjoyments and not liberation though I know very well that material enjoyments is pure distress disguised in the form of enjoyments.

Sincerely,
Mihir.

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Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!

Dear Mihir, please accept, my full dandavat pranams!

Hope you can come back as soon as possible.

I am not so qualified to answer your question, but I will try to open a dialogue, so that others may share their knowldge and insights.

As we are sadhakas we have to cultivate determination and enthusiasm for the process. Srila Rupa Goswami in Upadesamrita recommends this enthusiasm if I recall correctly. So, really that is a key when ruci (taste) has not fully blossomed.

There is a postive process and a negative process. Cultivate all things that inspire you to remember Krsna (positive process)! Reject all things that inspire you to forget Krsna (negative process)!

As far as I understand the main reason we commit offences is because we forget everything is Krsna and his energy. Anything not in relation to Krsna is maya. As the heart begins to clean itself of dust through the chanting process we will begin to discern more easily what  is in relation to Krsna and what is not.

So I would understand (I may be wrong here) steadiness means, always being conscious of Krsna. So, as we are sadhakas the more we saturate our daily goings with things that enthuse us (in relation to Krsna)...the mind will be well trained.

For example, I am not a pure devotee, but for relaxation I will go somewhere nice on a sunny day and read about Krsna (and try to see him). I love computers and reading and music, so I will have fun that way (thinking of Him). I don't know if that is anywhere near pure devotion...but all the little things build...and so on, day by day we grow. Bhakti begins to blossom.

As far as chanting goes (the main process), I love Nityananda and Gauranga Mantrarajas more and more as time goes by. I want to chant and associate with them everyday...and as they are persons they will reciprocate. They will attract us Mihir...the more we call out for their company.

Last year I chanted alot...100,000 names per day for eight months. Then I stopped due to lack of taste (dry)! Now I chant much less, and am amazed at how beautiful these two Holy Names are. I have found what attracts these two Lords is humility and honesty...doing what we can in love (simple sincerity). They will lift us to the goal in due course. Srila Prabhupada said sincerity is the qualification. The devotees at Nitaai Sangha are most fortunate, the Lord inspires sincerity.

When I first met Gurudeva over the telephone, he requested I "simply chant 10 rounds each of Nityananda! Gauranga! everyday...as they have given us so many gifts in this life". That was the most excellent wisdom ever imparted to my heart. Gurudeva gave the key to steadiness, now I am moving toward that goal. Even one Holy Name chanted purely will take us home...and remember Lords Nityananda/Gauranga do not take offence...but simply clear all obstacles on the path. We have to simply call Them, they will come!

Hope this helps you in some small way.

in service....Nava.

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Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

Respected Swamiji and all Vaisnavas,

          Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krishna! Please accept my respectful obeisances!

          Owing to a last minute glitch my last post was interrupted before I could complete it.

          Sometimes I wonder at the ability of the English language to confound a reader. It offers a lot of room for confusion and argument over what people think was actually said. For those who are new, I would just like to mention that the OOPs book (which is certainly offensive) is only one example in a long line of debates on various controversial issues that exist over what our acaryas have said. It is very difficult to stop speculating even though we know it is dangerous and there is no point doing it. We have to be very careful not to end up getting caught in all these debates as they are very bad and discouraging for the cultivation of devotion.

           Coming to irregularity, let me make one thing clear that improvement is an ongoing process. Everything takes time! As Swamiji mentioned earlier, the mantrarajas will give their benefit at all times. Another thing is that since we have just started, we are in some conflict between the spiritual path and material path. But as we get purified more and more, chanting will become more and more steady. Right now the mind is still impure, so it has a tendency to go up on one day and completely down on an another. But for a person who keeps chanting, it will go in time. One should be very determined to chant properly. The rest will then fall into place

            Logical analysis is flawed. If A then B, or if not B then what about A? It isn't binary logic. By studying theory academically one cannot understand how the mantrarajas do their work. Chanting may be unsteady in the beginning, but the practioner IS being purified and eventually it will become steady. One can look at the example of devotees. Remember what Hadai prabhu wrote about his experience. It takes some time, but it will become steady. Theoretical academic study and practical realisation are two different things. Somewhere along the way, this logic has to be stopped.

            Logic can cause so many permutations that we are bound to get confused. What if this, then that?. It is a vicious and endless loop of arguments. It doesn't consider the personal power of the Lord's names. Whatever one knows should not fall apart because of the urges of the mind to speculate. It is not a case where its either all or nothing. 0% or 100% -- No. In material terms everything has to be perfect or else the whole thing's a failure. But spiritual progress is always improving. In my case my road seems to be going like this :

          1) First things may start peacefully and go on for a few days.

          2) But then as the dirt starts coming out, a person may suffer from re-emergence of old material desires and he may feel what are called 'withdrawal symptoms'. I have a feeling of being stuck in between and not being able to fully make up my mind to go either way. It is usually at this time that chanting tends to be unsteady. We may find ourselves committing offenses because we find it a struggle to leave them.

           3) But later on as the heart clears up, those agitations will die down and we will start to like our chanting and wait for the opportunity to chant. Chanting will become very steady and relishable.

           4) Eventually the practioner will advance further and further across all the various stages as described by our acaryas. Since I have no realisation on this, I humbly request senior devotees to please fill up the blanks.

            But really, each one's path is unique. To each his own as they say.

          The offensive mentality will go and chanting will become regular. But it all takes a little time! And that time we should be willing to give. I understand what problems you are having, so did I. But don't fall for the trap! The name of the Lord is not an object. The naama prabhu will do what is logically impossible. This logic is a great hindrance to surrender to the Lord as it prevents us from having any trust in his mercy.

           Whatever you may study, it all comes down to "Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krishna!" Hope that helps!

Your unworthy servant,

Srinath

 

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Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

Dear Nava Prabhu,

Nityananda ! Gauranga ! Hare Krishna !

In your previous posts you said that steadiness comes afer we burn our offenses. Since I have just begun chanting this point is very interesting to me. However I feel that if we are unsteady then how will we burn our offenses and if we don't burn our offenses then how will be steady. If this is the case how will we ever be able to progress in bhakti.

I think unsteadiness could be of two types. One in terms of number of rounds we chant in a day and another in terms of time that we choose to chant during the day. For example if a person is chanting 10 rounds then the next day he will chant 9 next day he might not chant then next he might do 10 again. Another unsteadiness could be in terms of time. One day a person chants very early in the morning, next day he chants very late in the night, another day his concentration is so bad it takes him the whole day to just chant a few rounds because of the pain caused during chanting. I request you to explain in detail about the future of a person who is a victim of both the types of unsteadiness and about a person is a victim of either one of them. I request you to explain in more detail especially about a person who is unsteady in time though he is chanting a fixed number of rounds daily.

My greatest doubt is if we are unsteady then do our offenses burn in totality and if they don't then without burning our offenses how will we ever become steady ?

Sorry for asking so many questions in a day but after tomorrow I might not be able to participate here much for the next 3 months.

Sincerely,
Mihir.

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Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!

when we are sufficiently desperate to end this nightmare ,without our most trusted well wisher the complete master Krsna Gauranga Nitaai,   Krsna becomes happy because we can sincerely chant

aspiring service,
bhaktatommy

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Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

Dear Mihir, Swamiji and all Vaisnavas,

     Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krishna! Please accept my respectful obeisances!

     If the offensive mentality was never there before, then where from has it come now? And why is it so hard to get rid of? It's not a fact that the atheists do not commit offenses. They do it very much by blasphemy of the Lord and His devotees and in so many other ways. History is the evidence. When you consider an eternity in material bondage until now, it is very possible to have committed unlimited offenses.

     Offenses here don't just refer to offenses while chanting. There are millions of ways to commit offenses before the Lord and His devotees. Just for an example, see the 64 offenses related to deity worship.

     The vast majority don't get knowledge and devotion instantly in one moment after millions of lives, that is too rare. It means that it takes so many lifetimes of slow development to get to this point and along the way so many offenses can be committed.

       Arjuna is a nitya siddha meaning he is an eternal devotee of the Lord and so there isn't any envy, etc. to be nullified. He is not an ordinary conditioned soul who became perfect by sadhaka.

       You must have seen by now that to study by logcially trying to analyse words is most imprecise and can cause a great deal of confusion. The English language is very imprecise in its usage of various words.

Sincerely,

Srinath     

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Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!

please accept my simple obeisances

in my experience when it comes to chanting "working" Krsna is directly reciprical according to ones sincerity.
we can sincerely chant and Krsna will come like the parents of a newborn who is crying. 

aspiring service
bhaktatommy

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Srila Raghunatha Batta Goswami and his Worshipable Deity

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!

Dear Swami Gaurangapada and assembled devotees,

please accept my simple obiesances.

Here is a very nectar biography from Nitaai Veda, about Srila Raghunatha Batta Goswami and his worshipable Deity (Srimad Bhagavatam) - click here

Shri Raghunath Bhatta Goswami; 

While Raghunath Bhatta was walking from Kasi (Baranasi) to Puri, he was thinking, "I wonder if Mahaprabhu will remember me? I was a small child then, and here at Puri He was so many devotees. I doubt if he would remember such a worthless wretch as me. And even if He does I wonder if he will still show the same affection to me as He did at our house in Kasi."

But when he arrived in Puri and was about to offer his dandabats to Mahaprabhu, Shri Gaursundor called out, "Raghunath!" before he could even offer his obeisances and embraced him very firmly. Raghunath's eyes filled with tears of joy and as he caught hold of the lotus feet of Mahaprabhu.

"Oh most merciful Lord, You still remember me."

Mahaprabhu replied, "What to speak of this life, I remember the affection that you and your mother and father have showed to Me life after life. How your mother lovingly fed Me everyday when I stayed at Kasi!"

Then Mahaprabhu introduced Raghunath to the other devotees who were very pleased to meet him. Raghunath conveyed his mother's and fathers obeisances and the news of Candrashekar Baidya and the other devotees of Kasi to Mahaprabhu. Then he brought out the various preparations from his bag which his mother had prepared for Shri Gaursundor. Mahaprabhu was very pleased and called Gobinda to come and store everything away carefully. Raghunath's father's name was Shri Tapan Misra. When Nimai Pandit travelled to East Bengal as a teacher he had met with Tapan Misra at that time.

 

Though Tapan Misra was a learned scholar and had discussed the conclusions of the scriptures with many other pandits still he was uncertain as to the actual goal and how to achieve it. One night after having thought on these matters for some time, he saw a dream in which one divine person was telling him, "Misra! Don't worry yourself on this subject any more. Nimai Pandit is coming here very soon. If you can, you should meet Him and He will be able to explain to you life's goal and how to attain it. He is not an ordinary human being, but an incarnation of Nara Narayan. He has come into this world as a human being to perform His pastimes but He is actually the Cause of the universe. Saying this much that demigod disappeared.

[C.B.Adi 14.123]

In the morning after finishing his bath and puja, Tapan Misra set out to meet Nimai Pandit. When he arrived at the place where Prabhu was staying he saw that the Pandit was seated on a bedstead within a room of that house. The whole house was illuminated by His bodily effulgence. His eyes were like the petals of a full blown lotus and His head was covered with curly hair. On His chest was a white brahmana thread. Dressed in brilliant yellow cloth and surrounded by His disciples, He appeared like the full moon surrounded by various constellations

Tapan Misra paid his dandabats and with folded hands spoke to Mahaprabhu, "Oh You who are full of compassion! I am very lowly and fallen. Please bestow Your mercy on me."

Mahaprabhu smiled and had an asan placed next to Himself for Tapan Misra to sit on. Then He requested his introduction. After introducing himself Tapan Misra inquired about the goal of life and how to attain it.

 

Mahaprabhu replied that, "In every age the Supreme Lord advents Himself, and for the welfare of the living entities he gives instructions on how to attain His association. In Satya yug the process was meditation; in Treta yug-, sacrificial rituals; in Dvapara yug-, worship of the Deity; and in Kali yug-, congregational chanting of the Holy Name of the Lord, Harinam sankirtan.                                                                                     [C.B.Adi 14/137]

Considering the strength, prowess and longetivity of the living beings, the Supreme Lord accepted the form of Acarja and ascertained these various processes for various ages. If anyone follows any other process than the authorized one he achieves no result. Therefore, in the age of Kali, the essence of all the scriptural processes is the chanting of the Holy Names of the Lord. Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare / Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare. These are the Holy Names of the Lord and are to be chanted at all times. By this process you will be able to understand what is the goal of life and how to achieve it. There is no difference between these names and Whom they indicate. There is no other way than Shri Namsankirtan. Giving up all other processes one should always chant the Holy Name of Shri Krishna. By the influence of this mantra you will be able to understand everything about the goal of life and how to attain it. Shri Nam is Himself what we are striving to realize and repeating this Name is the process for realizing what the Name is. There is no difference between the Holy Name of the Lord and Himself.

 

Having received these invaluable instructions from Nimai Pandit, Tapan Misra offered his dandabats at the lotus feet of the Pandit and asked if he might accompany Him on his return to Nabadwip. To his request Mahaprabhu replied that he should immediately go to Kasi where they would again meet together in the future. "At that time I will particularly describe all of these transcendental topics regarding the Absolute Truth in complete detail."

Thereafter Nimai Pandit set out on His return journey to Nabadwip while Tapan Misra left for Kasi Dham, accompanied by his wife.

Some years later when the Incarnation of Mercy, Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was proceeding to Brindaban on the path through the jungles of Jharikhanda, by way of Choto Nagpur, He arrived at Shri Kasi Dham. While Tapan Misra was bathing at Manikarnika ghat, a sannyasi arrived there and began to make the heavens resound with the sounds of "Hari bol! Hari bol!"

Tapan Misra was startled to suddenly hear the sound of the Holy Name. In the middle of the desert, to hear the sound of a rushing flow of water is uncommon. So to hear the Holy Name of Hari amidst so many Mayabadis was not an ordinary occurrence. Then, standing behind so many sannyasis, Tapan Misra sighted one especially tall and handsome one, Whose effulgence made everything around Him glow. He began to think, "Who could that be?" I have heard that Nimai Pandit accepted sannyas but could that be Him?"

Coming out from the water he became convinced that it must be the same Nimai Pandit that he had met with in East Bengal. Falling at His lotus feet he began to shed tears of ecstasy but Mahaprabhu picked him up and embraced him in great love. Then Tapan Misra very affectionately led Mahaprabhu to his house. After so many days they had once again been able to meet together. Arriving at his house Tapan Misra washed Mahaprabhu's lotus feet and along with his family members drank that water in great ecstasy.

The pastimes that took place at that time with Raghunath are nicely described in the Chaitanya charitamrita.

When Mahaprabhu visited Kasi on His way to Brindaban, he was a guest at Tapan Misra's house for ten days. On his way back from Brindaban he remained here for a period of two months. One can just imagine what influence the personal presence of Mahaprabhu had on the young boy Raghunath. He wanted to come with Prabhu to Puri and remain with Him there but Prabhu prevented him.

 

Shri Chaitanya received Raghunath in Puri with great affection and trained him in his religious life for eight months. Then he urged him to go back to his home to look after the comforts of his elderly parents. He further forbade him to marry and blessed him by putting His own neck beads around Raghunath's neck. Though he originally had no intention of returning home Raghunath complied with Prabhu's wish and studied Shrimad Bhagavatam for the next four years under one Baisnab scholar while living at home.

After the demise of his parents he returned to Prabhu's lotus feet where he remained for another eight months. Then Shri Chaitanya sent him to Brindaban to stay under the auspices of Rupa and Sanatan. Mahaprabhu instructed him to recite the Bhagavatam and the Lord's Holy Names. He presented him with a Tulasi garland of Lord Jagannath's, fourteen hands in length as well as the betel and pan prasad remnants of Lord Jagannath.

Unlike the other Gosvamis he did not establish any separate temple or Deity of his own. He attached himself to the worship of Shri Govinda Deb and enriched His service. ChaitanyaCharitamrita states that Raghunath ordered his disciple(s) to construct a temple for Shri Govinda Deb. The present temple of Govinda Deb was constructed by Raj Man Simha but it has not been specifically stated anywhere that Man Simha was the disciple of Raghunath Bhatta Gosvami.

 

His worshippable Deity of the Shrimad Bhagavatam is still being worshipped at Gadadhar Bhatta Pith within another Madan Mohan temple which is nearby the RadhaBallabha Mandir in Brindaban. There is also a very beautiful painting of Shri Shri GaurGadadhar here. Raghunath Bhatta was the disciple of Shri Gadadhar Pandit. In the Gaur Ganoddesh Dipika it is described that Raghunath Bhatta was Raga Manjari in Krishna lila.

 

His birth was in 1427 (Saka), 1505 (Christian) on the 12th day of the bright fortnight of Aswin. His disappearance was in 1501 (Saka), 1579 (Christian) on the 10th day of the bright fortnight of Jyestha.

y.s. Nava

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Re: Shrila Prabhupada Videos

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krishna!

The link I gave was to a google video user who had over 50 Prabhupada videos. When I paste the link into the reply box it does not show as a link , but here is the address:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5217787771783781244

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Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu - life and precepts audio book

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!

Dear Swami Gaurangapada and assembled devotees, please accept my simple obiesances.

Here is the first book to come to the west (1896), about Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu - his life and precepts by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura.

The link below has full files for download:

http://www.archive.org/details/Sri-Chaitanya-Mahaprabhu

 

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Sri Navadwipa Dham Mahatmya - audio book

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!

Dear Swami Gaurangapada and assembled devotees, please accept my simple obiesances.

Here is Sri Navadwipa Dham Mahatmya Audio Book...the link below has full files for download.

http://www.archive.org/details/Nabadwip-Dham-Mahatmya

 

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The Gift and the Gift Giver

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!

Dear Swami Gaurangapada and assembled devotees, please accept my simple obiesances.

Here is some points after listening to a lecture by  H.H. Srila BR Sridhara Goswami:

Only Krsna can give Krsna. Everything is by His divine sweet will...

All we can do, is increase our hankering....

His gift is passed down to us. Therefore we become the servant, of the servant, of the servant, of the servants....

All mundane conception needs to be let go of...our fullest satisfaction will be found in Him...

Letting go of all mundane consideration, offering duty to only One (Lord Krsna)...

Service...

All this will gradually be revealed...

Only Krsna can give Krsna...the highest plane...

Life Nectar of Surrendered Souls (Sri Sri Prapanna-jivanamritam) ebook - click here

y.s. Nava

 

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Re: Shrila Prabhupada Videos

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!

Dear Jagannatha Gauranga dasa,

I have uploaded Srila Prabhupada videos to my bloop account.

They whole collection can be downloaded here (Pankaja dasa uploaded them with BBT permission): http://www.archive.org/details/Bhaktivedanta-Swami-Prabhupada026

y.s. Nava.

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Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!

Dear Swami Gaurangapada and assembled devotees, please accept my full dandavat pranams!

Just briefly I would like to share some small insights of the glory of Transcendental Science. In particular the impact of my being being born, in a very moralistic western religious tradition based on salvation, and then the encounter with the Amorous Sri Krsna (pure transcendental philosophy). I feel greatly fortunate for this encounter.

As I have mentioned in a previous post, vedic culture and scripture is grand in one very prominent way. Simply its vastness. Srila Vyasadeva, the Incarnation of Vasudeva, had divine vision to see the vastness of what actually is! And as in all Divine Incarnations, his heart is full of compassion and mercy for the fallen conditioned souls. Therefore he compiled literature to cater for the needs of all living beings, and their spiritual well-being.

In his later years, in his maturity, he wrote Srimad Bhagavatam. Which teaches pure devotional service, free from all other motives. The cream of vedic literature, the ripe fruit of transcendental knowledge! Glorifying the pastimes of Amorous Sri Krsna who is pure transcendance, untouched by the material energy.

'Regulation is necessary for controlling the inherent worldliness of conditional souls.' Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada

Society is a complex organism, and the sages outlined a process of order that would aid the upliftment of all society.

Religiosity>Economic Development>Sense Gratification>and Liberation.

These systems are all material based. The fifth goal of life (love of Godhead) as taught by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is transcendental. Infact this love of Godhead (pure devotional service) diminishes the great goal of human life (liberation/salvation). The glories of liberation and salvation have been sung by prophets and sages and religionists since time immemorial. But, this great bliss of liberation is dwarfed (after the appearance of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu). Why? Because one minute drop of pure ecstatic devotional service is far far  greater! Pure devotional service comes in contact with the fountain of all nectar - Sri Sri Radha Krsna!

The modern day Acaryas such as Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada, and Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada, well knew that delivering the message of 'the amorous pastimes of Sri Krsna', to a western moralistic religious mind, would take some special skill. What not to say of the failings of moralistic churches, in delivering their youth from the glare of abandonment. By divine arrangement, Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Maharaja, came to the United States in the height of the sixties hippie culture, where disillusioned youth where abandoning their families religious traditions, instead pursuing a philosophy of free exploration.

Srila Prabhupada knew that the pastimes of Sri Sri Radha Krsna, could purify the whole world! This is confirmed in the Srimad Bhagavatam itself. But the obstacle (and hurdle needed to be overcome), would be the pre-conceived ideas of the western mindset. For a long time, many western religionists simply saw Sri Krsna as an immoral agent of the devil!

Why is that? That is so, for one very important reason. The immature religionists where projecting mundane affair onto the spotless and pure transcendental reality.

For example in a previous post - click here, we can see that qualities such as trickery, envy, and jealousy exist in the spiritual dimension...to enhance Sri Sri Radha Krsna's divine sports. To conceive that there can be an opposing view (that enhances spiritual quality of love) is inconceivable to the mundane religious moralist and the material minded thinker, caught in mundane affair. He cannot go beyond the material tainted religion of morals, which does not transcend the philosophy of salvation or material dealings (indulgence). In fact the moral code is entwined deeply as the foundation of his philosophy. Extracted from this material world (mayavada). Ofcourse saying that, there has been many elevated saints in all traditions who have tasted the supreme goal, love of God, by the Lord's sweet will. But such has not been the case for the common man.

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu opened the store house of divine love. And began to distribute it to all! Over the ages such has been the mood of all his pure followers - for example, Srila Bhaktivinoda, Sri Srila Prabhupada and Srila Prabhupada.

But there has been a process in distribution, so that the worldy people with pre-conceived ideas, may not be lead further from the goal - mistaking shadow for the transcendant! Therefore the need of regulated devotional service. The journey back home is a gradual progressive movement, step by step. Vedic culture and scripture has always operated in this mode.

We can also see that our beloved Gurudeva, Swami Gaurangapada, is clarifying so nicely the need to surrender to Nitaai-Gaura Tattva...without storming ahead into subject matter beyond our grasp. When the Lord sees fit, all rasa will be revealed in the heart. Then it will come in over-flowing waves of nectar, like a divine nectar ocean of rasa that the devotee swims in (never mistaken). The treasure and gift of God! Otherwise if we 'only' stormed into the sacred arena by our own volition (not waiting for the gift giver), we would be like a mad elephant in a garden - trampling all delicate shoots. So offensive infact, that the perverted (mistaken) view we would see... would be even worse than our previous conditioned state.

So this is the process!

The pastimes of Sri Sri Radha Krsna are so pure, that even one glimpse, in the simple and pure heart, of that divine reality, can transform everything. The pure devotee, is even willing to live in hell, forgoing all gifts of liberation that come to serve, if they impinge on his ability to taste the nectar of devotional service. In such a state of beatitude, the moralistic religion and projection has been left far behind.

aspiring service...Nava.

Here is some interesting reading:

BATSASUR

[The following is an article entitled “BATSASUR” written by Bhaktisiddanta Saraswati Thakura, printed in the “Harmonist” February 1932]

BATSASUR is one of the demons slain by the Boy-Krishna. He represents evils that are peculiar to boyhood. The neophyte is extremely susceptible to such evils. They cannot be got rid of except by the Mercy of Krishna. If one engages in the service of Krishna the juvenile vices are completely eradicated at an early age.

There is an English proverb that sowing of wild oats is inevitable at a young age. The term ‘Puritanism’ was originally coined to express the protest of boys and young men against any undue curtailment of the scope of enjoyment that should be regarded as permissible to them. Boys and young men claim the right to be merry and frolicsome. There is nothing objectionable and much that is of positive value in the display of these juvenile qualities. If the attempt be made to stifle this innocent play of the boyish nature under the impression that it is an exhibition of sensuousness and for that reason, as being as harmful as similar conduct on the part of grown-up persons, the result is not assurance but discouragement, of juvenile innocence.

There are, indeed, black sheep and these should not be allowed to taint the whole flock, for this purpose caretakers with full sense of their delicate responsibility are required to keep watch over them for ensuing the innocence of boyhood and youth without killing their joys. But with every precaution it has been found impossible to attain this double purpose.

The Scriptures say that it is not in the power of man to ensure the immunity of boys and girls from the blight of precocious sensuousness except by means of the service of Krishna. This is declared to be the only effective and natural method. Let the boys be exposed to the attraction of the Cow-Boy of Braja. They will soon learn to pick up His company. They will easily realize that the Boy-Krishna can also save them from every form of danger which they are exposed by the ‘right’ of their juvenile nature.

Why should this be so? There is a very simple reason. Krishna does not limit His service only to the middle aged and old people. The Puritanic ideal of Godhead is a conception which owes its origin to persons who are elderly although honestly enough anxious to establish the ‘Kingdom of God’ on this earth. But if you scratch the thin coating on the surface of their sage and sober scheme as befitting their age, you only detect the rotten arrangement for securing the maximum of sensuous enjoyment even for those very children who are to be brought up in this ‘virtuous’ way. If the child is allowed to spoil his health in boyhood, think these righteous people, he will not be in as position later on to enjoy the legitimate pleasures of the grown up man. Unless the Youngman husbands his resources of sense capacity he will also be a victim to premature old age. It is a policy of expediency of postponing a small present enjoyment for reaping a much larger measure of it through the long tracts of the years to come.

The spurious Brahmacharya ideal as misconceived by its worldly supporters embodies this Puritanic outlook. The Scriptures, indeed, enjoin that every one should serve Godhead from the womb. This is the real meaning of Brahmacharya. The ascetic practices that have come to attach themselves to the conception were interpolated into the Scriptures in order to ensure worldly values by this form of the empiric method. The scheme requires that the laws of the growth of the physical and mental bodies should be observed and followed. Nature is regarded as the kind mother who favors only those of her children who cultivate the filial habit of prying into her secrets. Nature is supposed to be unable to avoid divulging her secrets to her inquisitive children although she is well aware that her children will exploit this knowledge for troubling herself by harnessing her to their service. In other words it is also assumed to be the duty of the kind mother to consent to put her in chains in order to minister to the sensuous appetites of her worthier children. Nature is assumed to be able to do good to her children only by submitting to be the victim of their lust.

The practices of asceticism are really conceived in the epicurean spirit. The ascetic dreams of obtaining the mastery over Nature by the method of controlling his senses. If the senses grow callous to the temptation of the world the ascetic thinks that he will have less chance of falling into the power of Nature. He has an idea that when he will have perfected these defensive arrangements he will have become the real master of the situation. The Brahmacharin, according to the ascetic point of view, is to pass through period of training in severe abstinence with his guru in order to be fitted to discharge the duties of citizenship, which will: make a great demand on his nerves and muscles with greater thoroughness. There is no reference to the service of Godhead or to any spiritual issue.

We have had many occasions to explain that the spiritual is transcendental. No mundane consideration can form any part of spiritual training or conduct. It is not a spiritual affair to be even able to control one’s carnal desires. Such self-control is not therefore a function of the soul. The soul has nothing to so with the senses. The soul desires neither sensuality nor sexual purity. The soul is not a mere moral being. If Brahmacharya means a method of gaining moral power it is wholly a mundane affair and is as such not only of no concern to the soul but is positively obstructive of spiritual well-being.

This is bound to be so because the point of view of the soul is all-embracing. The soul rejects nothing. He regards nothing as redundant or useless. The soul has a use for everything. But the soul sees everything as it is really related to himself and to other entities. There is, therefore, no room for the temporary type of morality in his relationships with the other entities. Everything is absolutely good on the plane of the soul. The Scriptural Brahmacharya institution accordingly means service of the Brahmin i.e. the Reality Who is always the Great and always the Help. The servant of the Absolute is free from all delusion.

Morality is a valued commodity only on the plane of delusion. But, it has no locus standi on the plane where the conditions of existence are perfect.

Till the service of Godhead is realized it is impossible to be really moral in the sense of being needlessly and perfectly virtuous. If a person is causelessly virtuous in the worldly sense he or she will be a subject of easy exploitation for all the cunning rascals of this world. This is so because morality as conceived by the empiricist, has a reference to the physical body and the changeable mind and is therefore liable to change so long as the conditions are not radically altered.

The empiric contriver of juvenile welfare strives to produce conditions that will favor the growth and continuance of the empiric moral aptitude. These artificial conditions are confidently enough expected to be likely to prove of permanent benefit to those young persons who are brought up under those impoverished conditions. But the brand of morality that has to be produced by the artificial manipulation of the natural environment is likely to prove of little value when the props are withdrawn. The analogy of needed protection for the growth of the delicate plants does to apply as such plants are always exoterics. Hot-house morality is thus a misnomer and a delusion in relation to the soul.

Brahmacharya fully embodies the substantive ideal of spiritual purity distortedly reflected in the empiric ethical conception. Brahmacharya means service of the Absolute. Juvenile innocence is not the monopoly of young persons, any more than juvenile naughtiness. They are the animal entities corresponding to analogous spiritual qualities. The spiritual activities are perfectly wholesome. They include all value and harmonise all disruptive conflict both of which are so utterly wanting in their mundane pervert reflections to be found in this world.

It is not to be supposed that everything is done by Krishna and there is nothing to be done by ourselves in any matter. As a matter of fact there is a division of parts to be played in functions that relates even to ourselves, as between us and Krishna. Certain duties are allotted to us. Certain other functions are reserved to Krishna. Batsasur cannot be killed by us. He is too strong for us. This is in keeping with the experience of most educationalists. Juvenile innocence is a necessity of both young and old. One cannot acquire it by any artificial process. No person can also ordinarily retain it after boyhood and youth. This is a real tragedy of human life.

Juvenile innocence is desired on account of its enjoy-ability. But it should properly be desired only for the service of Krishna. The parent can have no higher duty than to employ his boy in the service of Krishna by putting him under the proper teacher viz., the pure devotee of Krishna. No parent is entitled to undertake the charge of the spiritual training of his own boy. He is unfitted for the task by his mundane relationship. Once such relationship is grasped to be an obstacle in the way of juvenile training the necessity of sending the boy at the earliest opportunity to the proper teacher becomes self evident. If the parent continues to retain his paternal interest in the boy after he has been put to school for the above purpose he will be only standing in the way of his boy’s progress. The training is not for the boy only, but it is a training for the parents as well.

Boyish naughtiness is apt to be overlooked, nay encouraged, under the impression that it is his nature to be naughty. This opinion overlooks the all important factor that the training is intended for the welfare of the soul of the boy and not for the juvenile body or mind. The soul does not require to be treated with indulgence. He is neither young nor old in the worldly sense. The body and mind of the boy have to be employed in the interest of the soul. Boyish naughtiness and boyish virtue are alike unnecessary for the soul. It is necessary for the soul to be freed form either form of worldliness. The mundane nature of the boy is no less a clog to the wheel of spiritual progress than the adult nature of the grown up worldling. The process of training is identical in the two cases as the soul is neither young nor old.

Much irrational pity is wasted on boys who are employed from early infancy in the whole time service of Krishna, on exactly the same terms as grownup persons. Persons who affect much kindness all of disposition towards juvenile frailties profess to be unable to understand why juvenile offenders are taken as seriously in spiritual training as those of adult persons.

But the teacher in charge of the spiritual training of boys can perform his duty by them only has the special agent of Krishna. If such a teacher chose to confide in his own devices, he is bound to be undeceived at every step. What he has really to do is to use the boy constantly in the service of Krishna. For this purpose it is necessary for the teacher himself to be a whole time servant of Krishna. It is only by abstaining to do anything that is not distinctively commanded by Krishna or His real agent viz., the Sat-Guru that the spiritual teacher of boys can hope to be of any help to his pupils.

The so-called science of pedagogies requires to be thoroughly overhauled in order to afford a freehand to the bona fide devotee of Krishna in managing young persons. The present arrangements based on the experience of this world and on the hypothesis of an absolute causal relationship connecting each phenomenon with the rest, by leaving out the reference to Krishna, can only realize the tragic part of a quack lightly administering all the wrong drugs to a patient smitten with a mortal illness.

The King of atheists Kamsa is always setting the demon Batsasur to corrupt and destroy the boys. The teacher of the young employed by the atheistical society is verily, the agent of King Kamsa. The atheist is afraid, least, the boys are employed in the service of Krishna. He is naturally anxious to prevent any acquaintance of the boys with Krishna. But if a boy has really found Krishna, the nefarious attempts of the empiric teacher are powerless to destroy his innocence. If such a teacher preserves in the fruitless attempt he will thereby quickly bring about his own utter moral degradation, and his sorry trick will also be fully exposed. Because in this case it is Krishna Himself, Who opposes his wicked activities on behalf of His protégé.

As a matter of fact, that concern of empiric educationalists for ensuing immunity of the boys from the blighting effects of precocity is altogether hypocritical. The empiric pendant only wants the boy to grow a body and mind that will ensure greater and longer scope for their worldly use. He does not want that the worldly use of his body and mind should be curtailed in any way. In other words, he is on principal opposed to the employment of the healthy body and sound mind for any spiritual purpose. But why does he want a healthy body for his nasty purpose? It is only in order to be able to have the pleasure of a more prolonged wastage and the rake's progress in downright earnest? A sickly body is not really harmful to a person who has no higher object in view than undiluted self-gratification.

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Re: Shrila Prabhupada Videos

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krishna!

Dandavats and obeissances.

Here is the link to over 50 Prabhupada videos:

video.google.com/videoplay

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Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!

please accept my simple obeisances

I think it may be worth mentioning here that Arjuna was in this material manifestation and simultaniously without envy.  I am taught Krsna spoke Gita to Arjun because he was without envy.   Arjuns intimate association with Krsna prior to this disabled Arjuns propensity for envy in my opinion. 

aspiring service,
bhaktatommy

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Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

Dear Swamiji,

Nityananda ! Gauranga ! Hare Krishna !

Bhaktininod Thakur said we have mountains of offenses in our heart thus it is not easy to burn it. However in your previous posts you mentioned that sins and offenses come in a different category as offenses directly deal with the Holy Name.This means that only a person who chants the Holy Names of God is doing offenses and an atheist is simply doing sins and no offenses.

For example one of the offenses is to do sins thinking that the Holy Name will counteract it. However a person who does not chant any Holy Name does not need to think like this thus he does not do any offense rather he is just sinning. Similarly we can see this for all other offenses.

Now it can be said we have mountains of offenses if we have been chanting since millions of years, as then we could have been doing offenses for millions of years against the Holy Name we were chanting. In Gita Lord Krishna said that after millions of years people get knowledge and surrender to Him. However in my case I am so weak that I am not being able to surrender to Him because of which I need to take the help of Lord Nitaai and Lord Gaura. This means I might have not been chanting for millions of years so in that case there should not be mountains of offenses in my heart. Now if this is true then why does Hare Krishna not directly work for me ?

Sincerely,
Mihir.

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Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!

Dear Gurudeva, please accept my humble obiesances.

One thing to know is the book "Our Original Position" establishes a totally wrong conclusion and incorrect siddhanta that we have fallen from Goloka and it erroneously uses some divine pastimes like the descent of Shrimati Radha or Shrimati Tulasi to falsely conclude  that the souls can fall down from Goloka. The ultimate conclusion in the words of Shrila Prabhupada is that..."It is a fact that no one falls from Vaikuntha..." in his SB 4th Canto purport.

Daaso'smi, BR Sadhu Swami Gaurangapada.

Yes as I read that quote from OOP book in Nitaai Veda I realized it was speaking subtley about 'fall from goloka'.

Where I put my faith Maharaja is in Sri Krsna's words in Gita where he says 'That Supreme Abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, nor by fire or electricity. Those who reach it never return to this material world BG 15.6' There is also other verses but I cannot find them of the top of my head.

Dear Srinath, sorry about the diversion in the thread, I will try my best to keep the flow of conversation in line.

your servant...Nava.

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Re: Vice of Fault Finding

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!

Dear Swami Gaurangapada and assembled devotees, please accept my simple obiesances.

Here is a verse by Srila Raghunatha dasa Goswami from Manah-siksa (intructions to the mind) - click here

Verse Six 

Translation 

My dear mind, you have embraced the path of self realization, yet you foolishly think that you are cleansing yourself by bathing in the pretentiously fierce qualities of deceit and fault-finding, which are compared to impure donkey urine. Factually, you are incinerating yourself and dragging an infinitesimal spirit soul like me into the conflagration. Stop this suicidal course! Dive into the immortal ocean of sublime ambrosia that awaits you in loving devotional service at the lotus feet of Shri-Shri Radha and Krishna. Resuscitate my very being and thus give both of us endless happiness.

In this selection of verses Goswami is speaking to his own mind. Instructing it. This instruction is greatly beneficial I find, in all honesty my mind is deeply afflicted with all bad qualities. The good fortune though, is that by God's grace we can distance ourself from that mind, realizing it is not our true nature. This material mind has been cultivated for milleniums, so a winding down of all these incorrect perceptions will take time. We can instruct it as we are spiritual potency (servants of the Potent).

As we become more conscious of our fallen state, we can then cultivate room for others, who are on their journey. There is a lovely purport by Srila Prabhupada (a famous verse in 10th canto - I can't find it) where he says such reactions are not karma as such, but the Lord's special mercy. Like a final burning up and winding down. A rapid purification.

This purport is comforting in that, as we accept the Lord's special mercy in our own life, we can acknowledge that his loving hand is working in the hearts of others also.

I just pray that oneday these false impressions may leave the mind (as Srila Raghunatha dasa Goswami is pointing out). So that pure love and endless happiness may flourish. (ofcourse I can only reflect on my own body/mind - the field of my karma).

in service...Nava.

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Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

@ Srinath: Dear Srinath, Thank you for your kind request. Unfortunately bulk movements of posts from one topic to another is giving an error right now and to move each post one by one is a big task. And since envy is the basic cause for Vaishnava Aparadha which is turn in the biggest offense in chanting Hare Krishna, I don't think that this discussion is fully off-topic. We have has this long topic discussion after quite some time and I am quite happy with everyone's participation.

@ Nava, thanks your nice posts. One thing to know is the book "Our Original Position" establishes a totally wrong conclusion and incorrect siddhanta that we have fallen from Goloka and it erroneously uses some divine pastimes like the descent of Shrimati Radha or Shrimati Tulasi to falsely conclude  that the souls can fall down from Goloka. The ultimate conclusion in the words of Shrila Prabhupada is that..."It is a fact that no one falls from Vaikuntha..." in his SB 4th Canto purport.

Daaso'smi, BR Sadhu Swami Gaurangapada.

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Re: Vice of Fault Finding

Dear lowerthanarat, Thanks for a nice quote of Shrila Prabhupada. The truth is good, but what I was going to say in this context that unless we pretty sure about the pure and exact truth, it is dangerous territory to judge other devotees based on what we have heard or even seen since our senses are not perfect. In our conditioned stage, we cannot grasp how a soul may be dear to Naama Prabhu or the Lord, even if the soul has some faults in one's character or committed some mistakes. There have been exalted Acharyas like Shrila Raghunatha Bhatta Goswami who have not been interested to judge or point out the faults of even someone who had committed genuine mistakes. They used to say that all are better than themselves and never hear about the faults of others. They even avoided calling a spade as a spade and fully concentrated on their own Naama Bhajana as they understood that criticizing someone else is not going to help in any way in their own Bhajana.

Daaso'smi, BR Sadhu Swami Gaurangapada.

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Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!

Dear Bhakta Tommy, dandavat pranams!

Thank you for your response to my questions. I just did a little search on 'envy' in the Nitaai Veda and found this: 

Click here for link

Envy does not manifest in the spiritual world.

The most important thing about the spiritual world is that there is no envy among the devotees there. (Bhag. 3.15.19, purp - click.)

Where not only is life eternal, blissful and full of knowledge... ignorance, misery, egoism, anger and envy–are completely absent. (Cc. Adi 5.22, purp - click here.)

 

There is no envy in the spiritual world. The OOP's book states that when a resident there becomes envious he must leave because envy is not allowed. We do not agree that envy can manifest even for a fraction of a second. If you wish to light a match in a gas filled room and think that you may go outside after lighting the match you will blow yourself up first, you cannot have the fire in the room for a moment. Similarly envy cannot even manifest in the spiritual realm--the nature of the spiritual world is such that the unpleasant conditions under which envy and other negative material qualities may develop are completely absent there, as we have shown with the many references quoted herein.

y.s. Nava.

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Envy (transcendant and shadow)

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!

Dear Swami Gaurangapada and assembled devotees, please accept my dandavat pranams!

Here is an article I wrote for your pleasure:

Envy (transcendent and shadow)

Here is some collection of verses about envy. We can see that envy prevalent in this material world, and such is never found in the Spiritual Dimension. ‘All things’ in this shadowy material world are perverted reflection of spiritual realities and qualities. The distortion in this material world is due to a false lording mentality. That perverted lording mentality is not present in the Spiritual World. In the Spiritual World all pastimes are to enhance the Divine Couple – the pastimes of pure love.

We can also see when the Lord (Sri Krsna) comes to this world he enjoys sports. So various devotees come in the guise of demons to enhance the Lord’s great sporting ability. In this connection there is interesting commentary by Srila Prabhupada Nectar of Devotion:

“…there is a statement by Narada Muni to Yudhistira in the Srimad Bhagavatam 7.1.30. There Narada says, ‘My dear King, there are many devotees who first become attracted to the Personality of Godhead for purpose of sense-gratification, from being envious of Him, out of fear of Him, or from desiring to associate affectionately with Him. Ultimately these attractions become freed from all material contamination, and gradually the worshiper develops spiritual love and achieves that ultimate goal of life desired by the pure devotee.”

Srila Prabhupada goes on to say later in this section of the NOD…”The attraction of Kamsa to Krsna in fear and the attraction of Sisupala in envy are not accepted as devotional service, however, because their attitudes are not favourable.”

The demons actually attain impersonal liberation, as such a mood cannot enter into the pure service land of Goloka Vrindavan.

Interestingly in Gaudiya Sastra (transcendental literature) elaborating on the science of love of God, there is mention of envy. In Chapter 31 of Nectar of Devotion (commentary of Sri Bhakti-rasamrta sindhu by Srila Rupa Goswami) when find the following statement:

“All the previously mentioned thirty three symptoms of ecstatic love are called vyabichari, or disturbing. All these symptoms refer to apparantely disturbed conditions, but even in such disturbed conditions there is acute ecstatic love for Krsna….There are many disturbing symptoms in ecstatic love, such as envy, anxiety, pride, jealousy etc…”

We also find in very elevated scripture (that can only be tasted by the pure-rasika devotees) the following evidence of such things as transcendental envy:

From Ujjvala Nilamani:

“Jatila: My dear daughter Padma, from where have you come? Padma: Mother Jatila, I have come from Govardhana Hill. Jatila: Where are the gopis? Have you seen them? Padma: They are in front of the sun-god's temple. Jatila: Such a long time has passed. why has Radharani not come here yet? Padma: Krishna stopped Her as She was coming here. Please go now, find Her, and angrily attack Her.

The pratipaksa (enemy) sakhis manifest the following qualities in their words and actions: 1. cadma (trickery); 2. irsya (jealousy); 3. capala (fickleness); 4. asuya (envy); 5. matsara (hostility); 6. amarsa (anger); and 7. garvita (pride).”

So it must be noted here that such high transcendental emotions have nothing to do with the perverted qualities we have developed through the ignorance of sense gratification. But it may also be said that the Divine Literatures have been revealed for the purification and upliftment of all souls caught in illusion.

So, beginning a life of regulation under the guidance of a realized spiritual master, we can begin the gradual and progressive walk back to Godhead. By simple regulated practice such as hearing and chanting etc.

Beginning with hearing preliminary instruction, for example we are not this body, and the fact that sense gratification is the cause of bondage…combined with hearing the glorious pastimes of the Lord from sacred scripture, we can gradually be purified.

By all humility in following regulation, in due course as our hearts become further purified…one day we may be able to hear the spotless pastimes of Sri Sri Radha-Krsna. But saying that, if we rush ahead into the rasika literature we will not understand its purport. Instead we will  the mistake comparing the all-pure with mundane affairs. Commiting the grossest of offences – trampling the delicate.

The vedic literature(s) is so great, that the texts have been written to elevate all classes of men. Similarly as divine love is ever-new, the rasika literature invokes service mood, to the Divine Couple, in the hearts of the spotless and pure.

So we can see that vedic literature, from the basic instructions on moral life, to the most elevated science of divine love, has been manifested by the Lord’s mercy, for all souls at various levels of spiritual development. Infact it is a great misjudgement to say that a  soul is not in service, even the atheist serves the Lord, who comes as cruel death.

So let us dive deeply into hearing, the heroic, the loving, the gentle, and adventurous (etc) pastimes of our beloved Lord Sri Krsna. Never running ahead of ourselves with false pride, but instead attuning our spiritual ear, to the gentle promptings of both internal and external Guru. For they will direct our life to its fullest potential.

Jaya Gurudeva!

Yous servant….Nava.

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Videos

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krishna!

Here is a nice video:

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Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

Respected Swamiji and all Vaisnavas,

      Nityananda Gauranga Hare Krishna! Please accept my respectful obeisances!

      This thread has come a long way from where it started and devotees have ben pouring nectar after nectar in every post. However the topic seems to have moved away from Chanting Hare Krishna maha mantra with offenses -- so please forgive me, but I would request that the last few posts may be moved to a separate topic by itself to give it due respect. At the moment it seems to be discussing spiritual emotions

        Regarding envy and other things, first of all the ultimate disease of the conditioned soul is the desire to become the Lord -- which manifests as the false ego. This world is a place for those souls who think they're the Lord and it is specifically designed to kick that false ego out and replace it with the realisation of devotional serivce as one's real nature.

        Lust is the desire to enjoy the material world. Frustration of material desires causes anger, eventually leading to loss of intelligence, bewilderment and ultimately greed. When one soul sees another soul better than oneself in any aspect, that ego, "I am the Lord. How dare he try to better me?", comes in and that is the root cause of envy in the material world. Its all a question of where we place our identification. Its complicated really -- but envy of others is due to the material identification. Yes it is a fact that the conditioned souls do envy the Lord because they desire his position. Envy is always there if anyone is superior to us in some way, whoever it is.

        So since the Lord is the ultimate in everything, the biggest amount of envy is usually reserved for him!

         Regarding spiritual emotions, they cannot be compared to the emotions of the material world. While the material world is called a shadow of the spiritual abode, it is a highly perverted, distorted shadow and so analysis of spiritual emotions with only material knowledge of language is imperfect and completely inaccurate. Although descriptions are given in the Nectar of Devotion, it can be understood only by realisation.

          The envy, anger, or competition in the spiritual world cannot be compared to their perverted versions in the material world. Unless there is divine realisation involved, one cannot know what they are. I cannot describe them as I have no realisation and senior devotees have advised me that its not a matter of just knowing or digesting information. They say that trying to mentally speculate on them is not only useless, it is also dangerous to do so.

          Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada : "The materialistic demeanor cannot possibly stretch to the transcendental autocrat who is ever inviting the fallen conditioned souls to associate with Him through devotion or eternal serving mood. The phenomenal attractions are often found to tempt sentient beings to enjoy the variegated position which is opposed to undifferenced monism. People are so much apt to indulge in transitory speculations even when they are to educate themselves on a situation beyond their empiric area or experiencing jurisdiction. The esoteric aspect often knocks them to trace out immanence in their outward inspection of transitory and transformable things. This impulse moves them to fix the position of the immanent to an indeterminate impersonal entity, no clue of which could be discerned by moving earth and heaven through their organic senses." (Brahma Samhita Introduction).

A humble attempt to describe my experience,

Srinath

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Re: Offender chanting Hare Krishna

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krsna!

Dear Swami Gaurangapada and assembled devotees,

please accept my simple obiesances.

This is also a nice read from Nitaai Veda - click here

Envy and the Hand of God

Nityananda! Gauranga! Hare Krishna! Resentment and envy for the success of others are actually a sign of cowardice, a sign of the ab­sence of the courage to accept the reality that we cannot control the world around us. We are disturbing the peace of mind for no gains whatsoever, because nobody has the power to change the will of God. Wisdom lies in understanding that the happiness and distress destined for us at the time of our birth, as fixed according to our past karma, are inevitably going to come, no matter what we do. just as distress comes in our life unin­vited, by higher arrangement, happiness will  also come of its own accord.

Therefore real wisdom lies in seeing the loving and well-wish­ing hand of God behind everything that hap­pens in our lives. Only with such a vision can we live in peace. But if a person is jealous of others and is trying to pull them down or destroy them, then he can never be at peace. Why? Because such a person is concerned not so much with how well he has fared, but with how badly others have fared. His success lies in the fail­ure of others. His mentality is like that of a crab, who having been trapped in a fisherman's basket along with many other crabs, is wor­ried, not about saving his own life by jumping out of the basket, but about pulling other crabs down so that he may stay at a higher level than them within the basket. What an utterly foolish mentality!

Therefore an intelligent person, a devotee of God, does not measure his success by such a meaningless standard - the failure of oth­ers. He understands that real success in life is in pleasing God because only by the mercy of God can all problems be solved, once and for all. And  knowing that everything happens by the will of God, he lives by the wise saying: what cannot be cured has to be endured.

This same truth is taught by Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad-gita (2.14)
matra sparsas tu kaunteya sitosna sukba duhkha dah
agamapayino 'nityas tarns titikisasva bharata

Krishna says, "O son of Kunti, the non-permanent appearance of happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course, are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being dis­turbed."

For example, the duty of a housewife is to cook. In the summer season, though the kitchen may be very hot, she cannot say, "I will cook only in the winter. In summer, the kitchen is very hot. So I cannot cook." Even though the kitchen may be hot, she has to just tolerate the heat and go on with her duty of cooking.

In the same way, we have to know that there are many things in life, which are beyond our control. If a person thinks, "I can control ev­erything in every situation throughout my life", the mind of such a person will be literally torn to pieces. An intelligent person knows that God is the Supreme Controller and that He is controlling everything that is happening throughout the world as well as in his own life. Such a person, who sees with the eyes of knowledge, can understand that he is bound from head to toe by the laws of nature. When we ourselves are so completely controlled, how then can we expect to control every situ­ation, or for that matter, any situation? Therefore though there may be hundreds of incon­veniences, annoyances and irritations from the moment we wake up every morning to the moment we sleep at night (and even when we are asleep), we have to understand that they are not within our power to change. So we should learn to tolerate them without be­ing disturbed. (Compiled by Radheshyam Dasa, Jaigopala Dasa, Chaitanya Charana Dasa, Sundara Vara Dasa.)

  Posted by Swami Gaurangapada      at  8:20 AM

 y.s. Nava   

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